Early Off-Season Discussion

[mwalker]

Kenny will always be held back by Canada. Is every missed throw and read Canada's fault?
No, but he still has a terribly conceived scheme and doesn't know how to open up and take apart
a defence week to week. He's not an NFL coordinator. 

Kenny needs loads of work, but he is a gamer. He just needs a coordinator that knows how to build 
an offensive framework around the strengths of his players. Our scheme feels like an oddly fit item
of clothing and our players are making the bets of it - but it is not good enough.

We will NEVER win a championship with him as coordinator. And if that's the goal...

[bigben07MVP]

1 hour ago, 43M said:

Sorry, but Im not buying this "Canada has gotten better" rhetoric Ive been hearing lately.    

First off, thats the logic that got him retained after last year.   That scares me TBH.

Secondly, Im curious where his playcalling has actually improved.   It was dog**** this past week, despite the win.    The biggest difference right now, much like last year, of our offensive run blocking has improved over the weeks, and Canada is getting credit despite not really doing anything different.    Dont get me wrong, I get he was never the only issue with the offense and the players have to do their jobs....but I haven't seen any improvements with his actual playcalling....just an OL playing much better vs largely mediocre defenses.

Third, while Kenny himself is a liability, Canada's offense does him zero favors.   Pretty telling when several players on opposing defenses talk about how predictable and broken the playcalling.    Kenny isnt good...but that doesn't excuse Canada's incompetence.   He still stinted any chance Kenny had of developing IMO.    May not have gotten much better, but I dont think Brock Purdy wouldve fared well under Canada, either.

We both agree Kenny is cheeks, though.

He has actually called different run concepts than he did at the beginning of the year. He is running out of 11 personnel (giving us lighter boxes) rather than jamming it up the gut running duo and power out of 12 and 13 personnel. He is running out of passing formations, which is something he very rarely did at the beginning of the year (also makes our offense less predictable). 

He is utilizing pulling the O-Lineman which fits the strengths of guys like Cole, Seumalo, Daniels, and Broderick. We hardly ever utilized pullers the first few weeks of the season.

He also has used the Jet motion guy (usually Allen Robinson) as a lead blocker rather than just a clear out guy which has also helped with our “math” problem in the running game.

In the passing game he has utilized bunch formations a lot more than he did in the beginning of the season. 

Of course it also helps getting Diontae and Broderick Jones in the lineup. 

He’s also just done a much much better job of situational play calling and mixing up the run and the pass. He has been less predictable when it comes to running from under center and passing from shotgun. There’s been some more play action as well.

So yea, he actually has done a lot different. Again, he still deserves a ton of blame for Kenny’s development and our offensive struggles in general and yea it’s on him to not have made these changes earlier in the year (goes for last season as well) but he absolutely does deserve acknowledgement of the changes he’s made….with that being said I have my doubts that DCs won’t start making adjustments against this “new” Canada offense and we will be back to square one.

Kenny has missed SEVERAL open receivers the past few weeks. He either just completely doesn’t see them, or sees them and air mails it. Almost every aspect of his game from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his pocket awareness and mobility has regressed. He has 7 more games (plus potentially the playoffs) to change my mind but I’m just simply not seeing it right now. Its not all on Canada.

And lastly, I actually strongly disagree that Purdy wouldn’t be doing much better in the exact same situation right now. I think Josh Dobbs would be doing better than KP is right now to be 100% honest with you. 

[bigben07MVP]

14 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

He has actually called different run concepts than he did at the beginning of the year. He is running out of 11 personnel (giving us lighter boxes) rather than jamming it up the gut running duo and power out of 12 and 13 personnel. He is running out of passing formations, which is something he very rarely did at the beginning of the year (also makes our offense less predictable). 

He is utilizing pulling the O-Lineman which fits the strengths of guys like Cole, Seumalo, Daniels, and Broderick. We hardly ever utilized pullers the first few weeks of the season.

He also has used the Jet motion guy (usually Allen Robinson) as a lead blocker rather than just a clear out guy which has also helped with our “math” problem in the running game.

In the passing game he has utilized bunch formations a lot more than he did in the beginning of the season. 

Of course it also helps getting Diontae and Broderick Jones in the lineup. 

He’s also just done a much much better job of situational play calling and mixing up the run and the pass. He has been less predictable when it comes to running from under center and passing from shotgun. There’s been some more play action as well.

So yea, he actually has done a lot different. Again, he still deserves a ton of blame for Kenny’s development and our offensive struggles in general and yea it’s on him to not have made these changes earlier in the year (goes for last season as well) but he absolutely does deserve acknowledgement of the changes he’s made….with that being said I have my doubts that DCs won’t start making adjustments against this “new” Canada offense and we will be back to square one.

Kenny has missed SEVERAL open receivers the past few weeks. He either just completely doesn’t see them, or sees them and air mails it. Almost every aspect of his game from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his pocket awareness and mobility has regressed. He has 7 more games (plus potentially the playoffs) to change my mind but I’m just simply not seeing it right now. Its not all on Canada.

And lastly, I actually strongly disagree that Purdy wouldn’t be doing much better in the exact same situation right now. I think Josh Dobbs would be doing better than KP is right now to be 100% honest with you. 

This is very long winded way of saying

- Canada actually has made changes that deserve acknowledgment 

- The offense is still no where as good as it could be or needs to be 

- Canada still needs to go

- Kenny has regressed and has lost me

[Blitzburgh]

So with the Bills seemingly making Ken Dorsey their fall guy, would you try to find a spot for him on this team as a passing game coordinator or something. Could be great for Kenny and a potential OC next year.
 

Not sure he would want to and will probably have a spot waiting with the Giants.  

[warfelg]

I know some of you are going to think I’m insane for saying this but sometimes it’s just the flat out truth of team building:

It’s much much easier to replace Canada than it is Kenny. For multiple reasons. 

1) If you’re going in with the thought of drafting a QB the opportunity cost kinda isn’t worth it. Giving up picks to move up for a top guy in RD1 when we still have so many needs across the board and lack overall talent? It’s going to cost 4-5 picks to get from 20ish to top 5. If you look for one to fall in RD1 in this class it’s a deeply flawed or capped player. Are you waiting for RD3? Your more likely to end up with KP2.0 or worse than someone better. 

2) Go to sign someone? How often does an actual good QB hit the market? It’s really rare. So when you end up doing is paying $40MM a year to Kirk Cousins? Hell at least Kenny would win you games. Kirk’s a loser. Is a barely upgrade over Kenny worth giving up 50% of your potential available cap space? Not at all. 

3) Trade for someone. This is like the worst of 1&2. You give up your key blocks for cost controllable players and team building and you blow out your cap. Add on there’s usually a reason that QB is available and it’s usually the team letting him go either knows he’s near the end or ain’t that good to start with. 

4) 2024 is Kenny’s make or break year. I know it isn’t pretty but if every team gave up on QBs in their second year there would be a mess. And I’m not saying this in a “Kenny’s great just you see” way but rather, he’s basically just finished his rookie year. One that we’ve basically complained non-stop about playcalling, run game, passing concepts, pass blocking, run blocking. Very very few QBs are good enough to overcome that.

5) We were very lucky that for 10 years of his prime and 15 of his years Ben was that which I mentioned in 4. But those guys are really rare and in the HOF or on their way. That’s how rare that is. And even more rare for teams to go from Manning to Luck or Favre to Rodgers. There’s a saying for QB that you never want to follow the guy. You want to be the guy that follows the guy that followed the guy. I think some forget that Bens early years as a passer were not that good and he was a thrower rather than a QB. The difference? He had an OC (Whiz) who knew how to grow a QB. 

All in all with regards to this:

-Dump Canada

-Make 2024 KPs make or break year

-Via draft and FA get a C, RT, and legit SlotWR. 

-Now for some of my hotter offense takes: Draft a speed back. 

-Trade Freiermuth

-Either trade or extend DJ. No lame Duck year. (OT kinda dunno my phone still capitalizes Duck automatically)

-Tell Kenny to let it rip. IDGAF about turnovers. 

If Kenny fails, so be it. If Kenny succeeds, cool. If he’s average, you now have choices. Go get the high pick putting them in a good situation or trade for a good QB or take a year to replenish the defense then go get the QB in ‘26 offseason. 

But doing something this offseason for QB that impedes our chances of improving the rest of the roster will doom us to a decade of mediocrity, and frankly, would be a very Browns move. 

[jebrick]

I think 2025 is the year they need to decide if KP is their QB.  If no they can take his 5th year option and draft a QB.

[warfelg]

https://x.com/steelersdepot/status/1724782609258185003?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

Very interesting article and the comments more so. Interesting on scripted vs non-scripted and the impact on the run game/and longs. 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

I think 2025 is the year they need to decide if KP is their QB.  If no they can take his 5th year option and draft a QB.

this is how I see it. If they let other RD1 picks play out their rookie deal, I can't see why they would give up on KP entirely so early. Maybe if a QB they really liked hit UFA or was traded they might consider. Or of course if a special QB fell in the draft due to rumours/off field incidents , that could also play into this. 

I am expecting /preparing for 4 years of KP as QB1, not even considering otherwise unless he gets really bad or a severe injury.  

so, lets hope the run game can control games and defence can win games. ST units need to be top tier as well. Win the TO battle and games will be close . Thats the steelers as long as KP is here, even if Canada gets fired. 

[43M]

14 hours ago, warfelg said:

I know some of you are going to think I’m insane for saying this but sometimes it’s just the flat out truth of team building:

It’s much much easier to replace Canada than it is Kenny.

Probably what WILL happen, and Im good with it, but if we make the playoffs, I have a feeling Canada comes back.

If anything, they will probably use the QB coach as a scapegoat and replace him.

[3rivers]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:49 PM, mwalker said:

We will NEVER win a championship with him as coordinator. And if that's the goal...

this is what most people say

then of course if they do win a SB with canada and KP, it's time for the media to praise Tomlin . I can't imagine the media changing their view of canada and KP. 

[mwalker]

3 hours ago, 3rivers said:

this is what most people say

then of course if they do win a SB with canada and KP, it's time for the media to praise Tomlin . I can't imagine the media changing their view of canada and KP. 

I'm not trying to be overly negative or anything, I just believe at the moment you have group of players and a dynasty 
of culture and attitude that is willing this team to victory. That can only go on so long. 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, mwalker said:

I'm not trying to be overly negative or anything, I just believe at the moment you have group of players and a dynasty 
of culture and attitude that is willing this team to victory. That can only go on so long. 

it can only go on so long if certain opponents are a favourable matchup, if we get/stay healthy  . All that can crash and it won't matter who the OC is if the QB is a TO machine or is like mitch and drive 80 yards to only throw it away. 

this year seems like the playing field has levelled off, KC isn't the same without Bieniemy and other teams have had some key injuries. 

[3rivers]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:53 PM, 43M said:

but that doesn't excuse Canada's incompetence

but I guess this does? Christmas arrived early in 23 if ASt  is actually not fabricating this

[mwalker]

4 hours ago, 3rivers said:

but I guess this does? Christmas arrived early in 23 if ASt  is actually not fabricating this

For the life of me, I don't get this.
If they do this, Tomlin and FO are the real architects to blame.
than anyone else. 

[3rivers]

8 minutes ago, mwalker said:

For the life of me, I don't get this.
If they do this, Tomlin and FO are the real architects to blame.
than anyone else. 

exactly, they are the architects of this, so as fans, we have to get used to it.  It's not what we prefer or can barely tolerate, but thats what our future is as steeler fans. canada is an employee doing what he is told, if he wasnt' they would have fired him by now

I feel for the season ticket holders. Considering the team might play near capability for about half a game at most, can they get a 50% refund off what they paid for their tickets?   Do they even offer free food and beverages to help with the eyesore steelers offence?