2024 WR Talk

[Daniel]

If whatever team drafts Odunze doesn’t immediately start calling him Doomsday, it’s a huge missed opportunity.

[nicfre2011]

Are there any WR prospects that could be available mid 2nd to low 3rd round that has a skill set and projected use similar to Xavier Worthy or Troy Franklin?

[TVScout]

27 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

Are there any WR prospects that could be available mid 2nd to low 3rd round that has a skill set and projected use similar to Xavier Worthy or Troy Franklin?

Jalen McMillan.

[Daniel]

42 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

Are there any WR prospects that could be available mid 2nd to low 3rd round that has a skill set and projected use similar to Xavier Worthy or Troy Franklin?

Those are two very, very different receivers. Are you asking for deep threats/speedy receivers?

Also, there’s a pretty good chance that Worthy will be available late second/early third.

[DoleINGout]

14 hours ago, Tugboat said:

What's not to see?  He's got to potential to be a big "QB-proof" possession target in that DeAndre Hopkins/Alshon Jeffery sort of mold.  The "get it in the vicinity and they'll bail you out" types.  It's what he does for Penix constantly.  Strong hands, great ability to adjust on the ball and play through contested catches, physical and powerful to fight through press, big catch radius to go way outside his frame and understands how to use his body positioning to box guys out to come down with balls that get put where only he can get them.  Just a really natural receiver who has a great sense of timing, space, and leverage.  You see him consistently slip right into a hole in coverage at just the right time.  A QBs best friend type who can just constantly move the chains when it matters most.  Even when it's a tight window, the QB can feel confident that more often than not, he's going to come down with it...or nobody is.

 

I get where some people aren't going to see him as being as "dynamic" or "explosive" as some people prefer, and that's not really going to be his role.  I even get where people might have concerns about not getting consistent absolutely huge "college open" sort of separation and how that'll translate.  But it's not like he's a slug and he may not even run a blazing 40, but he's got clear "football speed" in pads, and moves really fluidly and with a lot of nuance and subtlety that shows great body control.

 

That sort of profile is absolutely huge in value to a team and he's got all the tools and traits to project solidly as that.  Especially if you're a team that has a QB who really trusts his arm to fully take advantage of that and just force feed it in there.

Respectfully, I do not see Hopkins or even Jeffery with Odunze.

All I see is a slightly built, maxed-out athletically, low ceiling receiver who relies on contested catches and his frame because a lot of the times he doesn’t generate separation. I think he will struggle with adjusting to the NFL. Simple as that. I’m not sure though about his future. He could improve in route running and release to the point where he overcomes his flaws. You could say that about anyone though. Quite frankly, I’d project Odunze out to be a disappointment if selected anywhere in the first round.

[sparky151]

He's 6'3" and about 210. That's not slightly built. It's a truism that college receivers with lots of contested catches generally don't do well in the NFL but he might be an exception. He had lots of catches with good separation in addition to the contested ones. 

[Tugboat]

5 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

Respectfully, I do not see Hopkins or even Jeffery with Odunze.

All I see is a slightly built, maxed-out athletically, low ceiling receiver who relies on contested catches and his frame because a lot of the times he doesn’t generate separation. I think he will struggle with adjusting to the NFL. Simple as that. I’m not sure though about his future. He could improve in route running and release to the point where he overcomes his flaws. You could say that about anyone though. Quite frankly, I’d project Odunze out to be a disappointment if selected anywhere in the first round.

 

Odunze is "slightly built"?  🤨  We'll see when the real combine measurements come in, but he's listed at 6'3" 215lbs and looks it.  Certainly doesn't look "slightly built" to me.  He's no DK Metcalf, but that's a pretty big outlier.  Heck, aside from Coleman and Legette who is extra thicc, and maybe Corley who is built like a RB...there's a very reasonable chance that Odunze is the next heaviest receiver in the draft.  😆

 

It almost sounds like you're getting the two Washington guys mixed up here.  What you're describing sounds a lot more like Ja'lynn Polk to me.

 

As for all the contested catches with Odunze...there are a few mitigating factors for me.  1)He's extremely good at them.  With a terrific feel for body positioning and strong hands.  2)Quite a few of them are frankly on Penix (as evidenced by everyone on that team having a boatload of them).  A lot of it is Odunze sitting down or timing up a window, and the ball being delivered on the late side which allows defenders to close.  Or Penix just straight up throwing him back into coverage.  3)He generates plenty of opportunities where he gets all sorts of separation as well.  He's not just perpetually unable to uncover.  He's just able to work well and win balls reliably even when he doesn't have a lot of separation, or when he's throw into tight coverage and forced to give up his separation adjusting on the ball delivery.

 

I still genuinely wonder if you aren't mixing Odunze and Polk up though.  Because if you gave me that list of concerns with Polk, i'd be inclined to probably agree.

[Re-Drew-Vinated]

Hot take probably, but is anyone else on the AD Mitchell hype train? He just looks so damn smooth every time I watch him on film. I think he has some crazy upside in the NFL, somewhere between Lamb and Pickens as a prospect for me. I have him at #4 behind MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze with BTJ rounding out my top 5.

[DoleINGout]

19 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

 

Odunze is "slightly built"?  🤨  We'll see when the real combine measurements come in, but he's listed at 6'3" 215lbs and looks it.  Certainly doesn't look "slightly built" to me.  He's no DK Metcalf, but that's a pretty big outlier.  Heck, aside from Coleman and Legette who is extra thicc, and maybe Corley who is built like a RB...there's a very reasonable chance that Odunze is the next heaviest receiver in the draft.  😆

 

It almost sounds like you're getting the two Washington guys mixed up here.  What you're describing sounds a lot more like Ja'lynn Polk to me.

 

As for all the contested catches with Odunze...there are a few mitigating factors for me.  1)He's extremely good at them.  With a terrific feel for body positioning and strong hands.  2)Quite a few of them are frankly on Penix (as evidenced by everyone on that team having a boatload of them).  A lot of it is Odunze sitting down or timing up a window, and the ball being delivered on the late side which allows defenders to close.  Or Penix just straight up throwing him back into coverage.  3)He generates plenty of opportunities where he gets all sorts of separation as well.  He's not just perpetually unable to uncover.  He's just able to work well and win balls reliably even when he doesn't have a lot of separation, or when he's throw into tight coverage and forced to give up his separation adjusting on the ball delivery.

 

I still genuinely wonder if you aren't mixing Odunze and Polk up though.  Because if you gave me that list of concerns with Polk, i'd be inclined to probably agree.

Nope, Odunze lacks a lot for me. Definite bust. I don’t see separation skills, burst, or YAC potential. Just about as average as it gets.

[Tugboat]

4 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

Nope, Odunze lacks a lot for me. Definite bust. I don’t see separation skills, burst, or YAC potential. Just about as average as it gets.

 

Fair enough.  That's the draft.  Everyone's got different perspectives on things.  There are always guys who boom/bust way beyond or below where the "consensus" tends to like them.  Maybe Odunze is one of them.  Maybe not.

Personally i just don't really see that level of concern with him, or agree with some of those more objective characterizations even (like him being "slightly built").  But that's what discussion is for.

 

I really think Polk is a guy where those concerns should be so much bigger.  He makes a ton of contested catches and very rarely seems to build that bigtime separation.  And rarely tends to draw top attention either.  So he's not getting very much separation vs a lot less primary matchups.  He's also a guy who seems to have very little of any YAC potential.  It feels like he's pretty much a "down at the catch point" every time sort of receiver.  I'm also not as sold on his physicality and tools to win as regularly that way at the Pro level.

I still think Polk is worth a Day2 Flyer as a bigger WR2/3 secondary sort of target.  And Odunze is WR2 for me.  Would be ecstatic if he for some reason fell within range of the Jaguars, but i don't see any possibility of that at all.

 

But to each their own.  This is why discussions are interesting instead of dropping twitter hot takes or just following the consensus/popular rankings.  It's also why we have the "Roster of your misses" thread and bragging about the "Big wins", because we've all got lots of both.  😆

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

He's 6'3" and about 210. That's not slightly built. It's a truism that college receivers with lots of contested catches generally don't do well in the NFL but he might be an exception. He had lots of catches with good separation in addition to the contested ones. 

Agreed.  I'd also push back on him not being a polished route runner.  Maybe I'm not the best educated on the subject, but I thought he was an extremely polished route runner.  Very smooth and fluid.

28 minutes ago, Re-Drew-Vinated said:

Hot take probably, but is anyone else on the AD Mitchell hype train? He just looks so damn smooth every time I watch him on film. I think he has some crazy upside in the NFL, somewhere between Lamb and Pickens as a prospect for me. I have him at #4 behind MHJ, Nabers, and Odunze with BTJ rounding out my top 5.

Titans fans have been on Mitchell at 39 for a while.  We've been pretty sure pick 1 would be a tackle, and he was the best realistic round 2 option.  But I think people are starting to come around to him being a first round receiver.  Thomas seems to be the consensus WR4, but I think Mitchell is next on most boards.  Thomas, Mitchell, Coleman, and Franklin seem to be the next tier after the big 3, in some order.

[Tugboat]

32 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Agreed.  I'd also push back on him not being a polished route runner.  Maybe I'm not the best educated on the subject, but I thought he was an extremely polished route runner.  Very smooth and fluid.

Titans fans have been on Mitchell at 39 for a while.  We've been pretty sure pick 1 would be a tackle, and he was the best realistic round 2 option.  But I think people are starting to come around to him being a first round receiver.  Thomas seems to be the consensus WR4, but I think Mitchell is next on most boards.  Thomas, Mitchell, Coleman, and Franklin seem to be the next tier after the big 3, in some order.

 

Yeah.  I actually find Odunze a pretty nuanced route runner.  He's not gonna run a lot of little slot receiver routes like Ladd McConkey or whatever, but i find he's actually got a really good feel for setting up routes and using that leverage to position himself to get separation or use his body positioning to control the rep.  He's also got really good timing and feel for space to make sure he ends up in the right place at the right time.  I would describe him more as what you said though, very "smooth and fluid" rather than ultra "sudden".  But i think he shows plenty of instances where he's got some real "shake" when he needs it, to get DBs plenty crossed up.

 

 

As for Mitchell at 39...that'd definitely be great "value".  I think his stock is definitely rising beyond that though.  Feels to me like he's more likely to slot into that mid-late 1st round cluster you mentioned here, with those names.  Possibly a couple others who could be in there and cause someone to slip, depending on what individual teams think about some of the more "polarizing" guys.  You never really know how the board will actually fall.  But i'd be surprised if Mitchell is the guy to slip out of the bunch with the upside and traits he seems to have.

[grizmo78]

@Tugboat I agree with what you're seeing with Odunze but disagree with what you're seeing with Polk. I would actually say it sounds more like Jalen McMillan. I think Polk just lacks that 2nd gear speed/suddenness to make him a high upside prospect but I can see him settling in as a solid #2/#3 WR. 

 

[nicfre2011]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Agreed.  I'd also push back on him not being a polished route runner.  Maybe I'm not the best educated on the subject, but I thought he was an extremely polished route runner.  Very smooth and fluid.

Titans fans have been on Mitchell at 39 for a while.  We've been pretty sure pick 1 would be a tackle, and he was the best realistic round 2 option.  But I think people are starting to come around to him being a first round receiver.  Thomas seems to be the consensus WR4, but I think Mitchell is next on most boards.  Thomas, Mitchell, Coleman, and Franklin seem to be the next tier after the big 3, in some order.

For the Chiefs, I am hoping to nab one of Thomas (likely gone at some point in the mid 1st), Franklin, Mitchell, or even Worthy for our offense. I wouldn't be opposed if we considered Ja'Tavion Sanders at the end of round 1 or especially after a trade back to the top of round 2. I think Sanders has a chance to really move up boards after offseason workouts.

[Daniel]

11 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

For the Chiefs, I am hoping to nab one of Thomas (likely gone at some point in the mid 1st), Franklin, Mitchell, or even Worthy for our offense. I wouldn't be opposed if we considered Ja'Tavion Sanders at the end of round 1 or especially after a trade back to the top of round 2. I think Sanders has a chance to really move up boards after offseason workouts.

I’ve kind of resigned myself to getting Ladd McConkey at 39.