Draft Discussion 2.0

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I've noticed a slight change of the narrative when it comes to Darnold declaring. Before it was that he should return to USC and avoid the Browns. Now some of those same guys are saying he should come out. That it is too much of a risk to stay because you'll be picked apart and be expected to be flawless.

It had me thinking, Darnold might still be on the fence, weighing it up. If so, what would be the best outcome from his bowl game against Ohio State? Has a huge game and capitalises on it by declaring? Or does a huge game give him hope that he can go and get a national championship with his boys next year? Plays a good game but they lose and he realises there's no benefit to staying? Has a bad game and realises he needs to leave? Has a bad game and realises he needs to go back and get better?

There's so many variables, it's driving me crazy!

I think he comes out no matter what. 

[Bonanza23]

53 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I read an article where Darnold's dad said even though he did well with it, "academics was never the priority for him". In the same article he spoke about how they used to have season tickets to USC football when he was a youngster.

I think his love for the school, plus maybe a personal awareness that he feels he needs more time to refine his game (which I don't get, you'll learn more and get better with with NFL coaches) will be the reasons he goes back to school, if he does.

Alongside a desire to avoid the Browns, which I'm afraid to say, I believe is very real. I bet every single QB prospect would rather play for the Giants than the Browns, even though we actually have a better situation.

You’ll have to forgive me here but there is absolutely no evidence he wants to avoid the Browns. NONE!! The only evidence out there is him saying that was false. 

[Aztec Hammer]

5 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

You’ll have to forgive me here but there is absolutely no evidence he wants to avoid the Browns. NONE!! The only evidence out there is him saying that was false. 

I know, you're right. There is none. To be fair, I did qualify my statement by saying I "believe", not that I'm certain.

I just think we can't underestimate the antipathy towards the Browns that exists. We've put it on ourselves and we've become a full fledged stereotype now. The QB career ruiner, the void from which you can't escape etc. That's from media, other players in the league, fans etc. Not proven from Darnold himself yet, thankfully. But take a peek on his instagram at his most recent photo. Every comment is begging him not to go to Cleveland and destroy his career. Or it's imploring him to play for Giants and rip it up in NYC. That unfortunately is a snapshot of general perception of the Browns.

I can only hope it's not his. And that he has the belief in himself to succeed anywhere, as well as maybe having a quick peek at both the Browns and Giants and realising we might just have a much more favourable situation going forward.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

24 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

You’ll have to forgive me here but there is absolutely no evidence he wants to avoid the Browns. NONE!! The only evidence out there is him saying that was false. 

Eh, maybe not but I'm guessing every prospect would prefer to avoid the Browns at this point.

I mean, if given the option would you prefer to work for the least successful company in your field?

[Mastercheddaar]

15 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I know, you're right. There is none. To be fair, I did qualify my statement by saying I "believe", not that I'm certain.

I just think we can't underestimate the antipathy towards the Browns that exists. We've put it on ourselves and we've become a full fledged stereotype now. The QB career ruiner, the void from which you can't escape etc. That's from media, other players in the league, fans etc. Not proven from Darnold himself yet, thankfully. But take a peek on his instagram at his most recent photo. Every comment is begging him not to go to Cleveland and destroy his career. Or it's imploring him to play for Giants and rip it up in NYC. That unfortunately is a snapshot of general perception of the Browns.

I can only hope it's not his. And that he has the belief in himself to succeed anywhere, as well as maybe having a quick peek at both the Browns and Giants and realising we might just have a much more favourable situation going forward.

Problem is he actually NEVER said that at all. It was rumored from some b@#hole named Albert Beer. Go and look for the actual news article where Darnold was quoted saying he would stay instead of playing for the Browns. You will not find one. 

Either way, there is Rosen who is better now but might not be the best later. 

Hopefully we end up with #1 and #3 or #4 and Kirk Cousins signs with us and we can take Barkley and the Best OT available or Fitzpatrick. Face it, a big money contract and a promise of spending 2 top 5 picks in the draft on can't miss offensive rookies might be enough to get cousins to sign with us. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[Aztec Hammer]

7 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Problem is he actually NEVER said that at all. It was rumored from some b@#hole named Albert Beer. Go and look for the actual news article where Darnold was quoted saying he would stay instead of playing for the Browns. You will not find one. 

Either way, there is Rosen who is better now but might not be the best later. 

Hopefully we end up with #1 and #3 or #4 and Kirk Cousins signs with us and we can take Barkley and the Best OT available or Fitzpatrick. Face it, a big money contract and a promise of spending 2 top 5 picks in the draft on can't miss offensive rookies might be enough to get cousins to sign with us. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

Again, I know he didn't say anything negative about the Browns. It's only a feeling I have. That the Browns, through their ineptitude and 1-31 record or whatever it currently is, have created for themselves.

Sam Darnold isn't ever going to come out and say he won't play for the Browns because it's the Browns. That would be a terrible look. But his feelings can probably be found in his final decision. I guess we'll find out soon enough. January 15th is the deadline, but maybe we'll know as soon as the end of the Fiesta Bowl.

I also agree that it could be much worse. He could be the only top QB prospect in the class. Josh Rosen is a fantastical backup plan. And who knows, he might even already be the #1 prospect regardless.

[Kiwibrown]

1. Sam

2. Josh

3. Lamar

4 Baker

5. the other Josh. 

[Bonanza23]

49 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Eh, maybe not but I'm guessing every prospect would prefer to avoid the Browns at this point.

I mean, if given the option would you prefer to work for the least successful company in your field?

Maybe so maybe no. If Darnold is as competitive as I think he is, I can see him wanting to turn this thing around. And I believe he can do it. Rosen too. Maybe Mayfield. 

[FGK]

57 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

1. Sam

2. Josh

3. Lamar

4 Baker

5. the other Josh. 

I really like all four of those top guys. But gun to my head right now I think I go...

1 - Baker Mayfield (I just don't see a knock outside of his height and one off field incident)
2 - Sam Darnold (I like him a lot, the throwing motion combined with the inconsistent accuracy puts him at #2 so far for me)
3 - Josh Rosen (I've watched some youtube film, and he just hasn't impressed me a lot outside of his couple massive games)
4 - Lamar Jackson (mostly because of injury concern with his frame/playstyle) 

[Aztec Hammer]

I'm coming around more and more to Rosen with every watch. He's such a well developed passer for a college player. If you told me he'd fill out a bit and wouldn't have injury issues, I might take him over Darnold.

[MWil23]

37 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I really like all four of those top guys. But gun to my head right now I think I go...

1 - Baker Mayfield (I just don't see a knock outside of his height and one off field incident)

Those that love Baker see a fiery competitor who plays with a chip on his shoulder, has major success from the pocket and improvising.

Those, like me, that loathe him, see a kid who suffers from short man syndrome at under 6'1, who is a DBag frat boy who grabs his grotch, cusses out fans/other players, talks trash, hits opposing players in the head with footballs while warming up, and plays in a spread/non NFL friendly system. There's a lot of meat left on the bone against Iowa State as well, where he refused to make short/intermediate throws from the pocket because his scrambling due to pocket ghosts majorly cost him and his team down the stretch. OSU handled him in 2016 as well. We'll see how he does vs. Georgia/maybe beyond.

That's not a guy I personally want to bet my future on, but plenty of teams will.

37 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

2 - Sam Darnold (I like him a lot, the throwing motion combined with the inconsistent accuracy puts him at #2 so far for me)

He's hands down my favorite. I like his frame, arm strength, and accuracy. Throw in his Pro Style system and how he's decreased his release time by 17% this year, all without his best weapons from last year, and I think you have a very good franchise QB.

37 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

3 - Josh Rosen (I've watched some youtube film, and he just hasn't impressed me a lot outside of his couple massive games)

The Pro Style system, quick reads, above average arm strength with solid accuracy and good pre-snap reads make me a fan. I think he's a guy who suffers from being one of/the only guy on his team who could be considered a playmaker, so he can force some passes and tries to play hero ball. I think he'll clean it up in the NFL. See: Matt Ryan

37 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

4 - Lamar Jackson (mostly because of injury concern with his frame/playstyle) 

I think he's a guy who will need to go somewhere else to succeed. He's a project guy with questionable accuracy who has shown gradual improvement. I still don't think he's going to be a "win from the pocket" guy in the NFL.

[Aztec Hammer]

8 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

hits opposing players in the head with footballs while warming up

Accuracy

[Thomas5737]

10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

There's a lot of meat left on the bone against Iowa State as well, where he refused to make short/intermediate throws from the pocket because his scrambling due to pocket ghosts majorly cost him and his team down the stretch.

Well in the 1st half it was TD, TD, FG, TD, Punt.

2nd half it was RB fumbled on 2nd and goal from the 5, missed FG, TD and turnover on downs. I didn't watch the game but statistically he had a good game passing and running and the offense did really well and he couldn't control the missed field goal and fumble. Besides those two drives they had 4 TD, 1 FG, 1 punt and a turnover on downs in 7 possessions. So almost 5 points per possession, hard to complain about that.

16 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

OSU handled him in 2016 as well

Well...see 2017?

[MWil23]

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

Well in the 1st half it was TD, TD, FG, TD, Punt.

Has nothing to do with scrambling around and missing wide open wide receivers while leaving the pocket for no reason.

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

2nd half it was RB fumbled on 2nd and goal from the 5, missed FG, TD and turnover on downs. I didn't watch the game but statistically

And this is respectfully where I stopped reading. I watched the game, saw these things, and came away with major concerns about his ability to read defenses and win from the pocket on a regular basis without improvisation.

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

he had a good game passing

Maybe statistically.

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

and running

Eh...if you say so. That defense was all over him in the 2nd half.

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

and the offense did really well and he couldn't control the missed field goal and fumble.

They ate Baker for lunch in the 2nd half on a regular basis.

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

Besides those two drives they had 4 TD, 1 FG, 1 punt and a turnover on downs in 7 possessions. So almost 5 points per possession, hard to complain about that.

Well...see 2017?

Stats don't matter much for me when evaluating a QB, especially in the BIG TWELVE.

[Bonanza23]

21 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Accuracy

Lol!  Actually was a really impressive throw.