Boycott paying networks - Stand up, or get bent over.

[INbengalfan]

1 hour ago, TheKillerNacho said:

To play devil's advocate, though, these are local public tax dollars. So, as long as the games are broadcasted normally for the teams involved, Joe Q. whose taxes helped fund that stadium wouldn't have to pay to see it.

I get that, and I'm not in the club whining about it.  As a season ticket holder who drives quite a way to home games, and as a resident living deep in Colts territory, I find it annoying to have to have Peacock or Prime (I do have Prime) if the Bengals are on it (they had a home game on TNF, so it didn't matter) but I just go to a local sports bar and take it in there if I don't just go to a friends house who has it.

[ramssuperbowl99]

3 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

Where people start to turn on the idea is when you factor in that most stadiums are at least partially, if not fully, paid for with public tax dollars.  So Joe Q taxpayer is footing the bill for the stadiums, only to now not be able to at least watch the games on non subscription outlets.  

For a similar but related reason, I don't consider piracy of any NIH funded science immoral in any way.

Socializing the losses/investment while privatizing the profits is BS.

[Mid Iowa]

On 1/13/2024 at 2:42 PM, iknowcool said:

I mean is it that much worse than having to pay for cable?  And why would you keep Peacock, ESPN, and Prime for an entire year if you are only using it for football season?  And if you have Youtube TV w/ Sunday Ticket, you wouldn't need Peacock (well, except for tonight's game), NFL Network, or ESPN to watch those games since they are included.  

That's the thing, it seems we (as an entire fanbase) must subscribe to something, or several somethings to enjoy what we used to get for "free". The advertising billing hasn't changed, but the big systems are "just $6" or "already included" (in your $120+ package) which is nickel and diming people.

I'm quite fine, financially. And I attribute most of that to not paying for subscriptions (other than the gym).

I have other concerns, and I'll put those on a separate post.

I appreciate you points.

[Mid Iowa]

There's always a lot to unfold with these topics.

I know like being nickel and dimed to death, and it concerns me for the future of this game. And here's why:

About 57% of NFL athletes are Black (with another 9.8% being Black/Caucasian and Black/Asian combined). Many of these athletes come from inner city, may be challenged by income issues, educational issues, quality of life issues, and now, the potential inability to watch a Prime Time game for "free" in their own household. They'll eventually start losing interest in the game, and move on to other things. And that's how we lose our beloved game, in time.

As a child, I lived for Sunday! My parents hated football, so I had to sneak around to watch the game. Either at a friends, the local bowling alley etc... but so many games were aired that there was always a way. Then ESPN came in a grabbed Monday Night Football. I eventually had a friend that had cable and would invite me and a few people over, as long as his folks weren't watching something on HBO...

So, for people who are already struggling to have a sandwich, the game is 1 more subscription out of reach to these folks. What started out on network TV became divided to ESPN, then to Prime, then to NFL Network, and now to Peacock... 4 subscriptions (or a package deal of some sort) in about 30 years time. Soon, it will all be farmed out, and become a spectator sport for the wealthy, only.

 

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

That's the thing, it seems we (as an entire fanbase) must subscribe to something, or several somethings to enjoy what we used to get for "free". The advertising billing hasn't changed, but the big systems are "just $6" or "already included" (in your $120+ package) which is nickel and diming people.

What did we used to get for "free"?  If you just want the local channels (FOX, CBS, NBC), you could get an antenna.  And it isn't like you can't still get cable if you want things like ESPN and NFLN.  If you have access to a computer or smart TV or gaming computer etc, TNF is free on Twitch.  What makes cable all that different than having Youtube TV or Fubo TV (which are probably easier to cancel)?  And it isn't like you have to get Sunday Ticket.

Quote

So, for people who are already struggling to have a sandwich, the game is 1 more subscription out of reach to these folks.

Were those same people who struggled to afford a sandwich getting cable 10-20 years ago?

Quote

About 57% of NFL athletes are Black (with another 9.8% being Black/Caucasian and Black/Asian combined). Many of these athletes come from inner city, may be challenged by income issues, educational issues, quality of life issues, and now, the potential inability to watch a Prime Time game for "free" in their own household. They'll eventually start losing interest in the game, and move on to other things.

This feels like an exaggeration.  I don't think kids are going to stop loving football because they couldn't watch Monday/Thursday Night Football (TNF wasn't even a regular thing before 2006).  I'm sure there are a lot of players who didn't have cable growing up or didn't watch football regularly, and just started playing football because they were that good at it and/or physically gifted.

Edited January 18 by iknowcool

[TheKillerNacho]

posted this in another thread but relevant here too...

 

https://people.com/10-fans-hospitalized-after-cold-kansas-city-chiefs-game-8430923

https://dolphinnation.com/2024/01/17/report-some-players-suffered-frostbite-in-miami-dolphins-kansas-city-chiefs-game/

 

Not sure where else to post this stuff as it didn't really seem to warrant its own thread. However, the reports indicate 3 fans were hospitalized with frostbite following the game and 7 more for hypothermia. These were just the more severe cases of the 69 calls for service made at Arrowhead on Saturday(!!!). Just a few hours ago, it was also reported that some players also suffered from frostbite following the game despite the heavy precautions taken and dedicated medical staff. While not the end of the world, it could have been way worse... and at the end of the day, the NFL refusing to reschedule this game put not only the players but the fans at risk (as predicted).

Perhaps the NFL should consider this in the future and at least move a game like this to midday - it still would've been ******* cold but FAR less dangerous. I have a strong feeling its deal with Peacock was one of the main reasons they didn't, though, meaning the NFL negligently sold out player & fan safety for cold hard $$$.

[Mazrimiv]

The real test of this Peacock playoff game was to measure the resistance from NFL fans.  For all the online outrage, the numbers came in significantly higher than what Peacock was projecting.  

Some interesting takeaways in this article.  The local broadcast viewers made up a smaller piece of the pie than I would have guessed.

Sharp differences in Peacock’s NFL playoff audience 

Quote

Last Saturday’s Dolphins-Chiefs AFC Wild Card Game on Peacock finished with a 9.2 rating and 22.86 million viewers, per Nielsen, figures that include local over-the-air simulcasts on NBC affiliates in home markets Kansas City and Miami. Those simulcasts combined to average 1.35 million (855K in K.C. and 490K in Miami), bringing the Peacock-only audience to 21.5 million.

[FrantikRam]

On 1/17/2024 at 10:35 PM, lavar703 said:

I mean, they might not be set for life but the league minimum last year for non-vets was $430K. You probably lost a good bit of it to taxes but say they take $130K of it. That guy still made $300K for like 6-7 months worth of work. And that's the league minimum so that guy probably isn't even playing. If they were a scholarship athlete and finished free college they can easily get a job I'm sure and invest that money they made. Even if you only spend two years in the league that's still $600K lol. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a jerk here but 90% of these dudes will make more in two years than most people will in the next 10. 

 

It's all relative though. Start doing the math on how far that money will get you. And even if you invest it, that's not money you're touching for a WHILE.

That doesn't even go into how much money a player spends on their own to get themselves ready. You can go find articles about that - it's going to differ by player, but it definitely doesn't seem cheap.

Which is all irrelevant anyways - it's still the leagues job to make as much money as possible while avoiding being unethical. And putting a game or games on a streaming service doesn't even approach being unethical.

[FrantikRam]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:01 AM, INbengalfan said:

Where people start to turn on the idea is when you factor in that most stadiums are at least partially, if not fully, paid for with public tax dollars.  So Joe Q taxpayer is footing the bill for the stadiums, only to now not be able to at least watch the games on non subscription outlets.  

 

@TheKillerNacho nailed it but to add another point - are fans more or less likely to go to a nice stadium? I think we can all agree more. From there, are local businesses  more or less likely to get more business if more fans are attending the games? Like it or not, that's one of the reasons why tax dollars pay for stadiums, and there is some logic to that. And it has nothing to do with streaming.

[Mid Iowa]

On 1/18/2024 at 1:30 PM, iknowcool said:

What did we used to get for "free"?  If you just want the local channels (FOX, CBS, NBC), you could get an antenna.  And it isn't like you can't still get cable if you want things like ESPN and NFLN.  If you have access to a computer or smart TV or gaming computer etc, TNF is free on Twitch.  What makes cable all that different than having Youtube TV or Fubo TV (which are probably easier to cancel)?  And it isn't like you have to get Sunday Ticket.

Were those same people who struggled to afford a sandwich getting cable 10-20 years ago?

This feels like an exaggeration.  I don't think kids are going to stop loving football because they couldn't watch Monday/Thursday Night Football (TNF wasn't even a regular thing before 2006).  I'm sure there are a lot of players who didn't have cable growing up or didn't watch football regularly, and just started playing football because they were that good at it and/or physically gifted.

I may be older than you, but literally 100% of football (NFL and College) was on over-the-air TV. It was pretty neat. 1 caveat, you couldn't cherry pick your game like you can today.

The "kids" I am referring to weren't born 10-20 years ago. I'm failing to see you point here.

When anyone says "Feels like" and "I don't think" I generally stop listening. Those aren't fact. But in this case, my scenario is based on fact AND opinion, so here we are, discussing. 

I'm not sure what you see out there, but the struggle is real. Housing prices have skyrocketed and we literally have an affordable housing crisis (both buying and renting). Food prices have doubled since covid started. You can't get a decent, reliable used car for under $3k (feel free to look on marketplace) etc... 

This isn't a "me" struggling issue. I'm far from that. It's an observation on death by a million paper cuts, if you will. That's all.

Oh, I do use a mega antenna. Paid about $120 for the whole system about 10 years ago when I ditched DISH due to their prices. I have Prime, and Netflix & Hulu are included with my cell phone package. So I'm not in the dark, it just pisses me off how spread out the simple things get, and every branch charges now. 

Cheers, and enjoy the playoffs!

[adamq]

20 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

I may be older than you, but literally 100% of football (NFL and College) was on over-the-air TV. It was pretty neat. 1 caveat, you couldn't cherry pick your game like you can today.

The "kids" I am referring to weren't born 10-20 years ago. I'm failing to see you point here.

When anyone says "Feels like" and "I don't think" I generally stop listening. Those aren't fact. But in this case, my scenario is based on fact AND opinion, so here we are, discussing. 

I'm not sure what you see out there, but the struggle is real. Housing prices have skyrocketed and we literally have an affordable housing crisis (both buying and renting). Food prices have doubled since covid started. You can't get a decent, reliable used car for under $3k (feel free to look on marketplace) etc... 

This isn't a "me" struggling issue. I'm far from that. It's an observation on death by a million paper cuts, if you will. That's all.

Oh, I do use a mega antenna. Paid about $120 for the whole system about 10 years ago when I ditched DISH due to their prices. I have Prime, and Netflix & Hulu are included with my cell phone package. So I'm not in the dark, it just pisses me off how spread out the simple things get, and every branch charges now. 

Cheers, and enjoy the playoffs!

I grew up in that era too and it sucked. You were limited to local teams and primetime only, so people like me could only see my team a couple times per year.

Today everything is available to everyone, and that comes with price hikes. It is definitely annoying to traverse the seemingly endless supply of apps and subscription services, but it's pretty easy to pay your month of Hulu or whatever and cancel it immediately.. 30 days later you can let it expire or re-up.

 

Everything we got for free is still there (and then some with the youtubes and tubis), but you gotta pay up for anything extra

[Chrissooner49er]

I have Prime and NFL+ and....that's all. I get to see all the games I want, too. Will not do Peacock, or any other service and canceled Netflix awhile ago.

I'm good. 

 

[iknowcool]

2 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

I may be older than you, but literally 100% of football (NFL and College) was on over-the-air TV. It was pretty neat. 1 caveat, you couldn't cherry pick your game like you can today.

Fox, CBS, and NBC are still on over-the-air TV (which wasn't a weekly thing 20 years ago anyway).  TNF is free on Twitch.  If you want everything for free, then the only game you are missing out on is MNF, which has been on ESPN since 2006, 18 years ago.  Someone back then would need cable to (legally) watch MNF. What ways of watching football for "free" existed in 2004 that no longer exist now?

Quote

When anyone says "Feels like" and "I don't think" I generally stop listening. Those aren't fact. But in this case, my scenario is based on fact AND opinion, so here we are, discussing. 

You said kids would eventually stop watching football and move on to other things.  What facts do you have to support that scenario is happening or imminent, or that interest in the NFL has waned?

Quote

Oh, I do use a mega antenna. Paid about $120 for the whole system about 10 years ago when I ditched DISH due to their prices. I have Prime, and Netflix & Hulu are included with my cell phone package. So I'm not in the dark, it just pisses me off how spread out the simple things get, and every branch charges now. 

You can get something for much cheaper than $120.

Your stance seems to assume that people HAVE to get NFL Sunday Ticket to enjoy football, or pay some crazy prices.  And that isn't true.  You can get a quality digital antenna for $30.  If you bought cable 20 years ago, then guess what?  You can still get cable.  It still exists.  Or you can get Youtube TV or Fubo.  That is why I'm missing your point. You can enjoy football the same way you did on Sundays back in your day, people just have more options/ways to consume it.

Hell, you can get NFL+ for 6.99/month or 49.99/year.  That's cheaper than cable, if your goal is just to watch football.

Quote

The "kids" I am referring to weren't born 10-20 years ago. I'm failing to see you point here.

Just as I am failing to see your point.  Why would someone who is poor now be more likely to fall out of love with football than someone who was poor in 2004?  Is there any data that suggests the more well off a family is, the more likely their son is to watch and/or play football?

Edited January 20 by iknowcool

[Mazrimiv]

2 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

I may be older than you, but literally 100% of football (NFL and College) was on over-the-air TV. It was pretty neat. 1 caveat, you couldn't cherry pick your game like you can today.

That 1 caveat makes quite a bit of difference for anyone who's moved outside of their team's local market. 

If you are still in the local market, virtually everything you think was pretty neat back then still applies today.

[Mid Iowa]

5 hours ago, iknowcool said:

Fox, CBS, and NBC are still on over-the-air TV (which wasn't a weekly thing 20 years ago anyway).  TNF is free on Twitch.  If you want everything for free, then the only game you are missing out on is MNF, which has been on ESPN since 2006, 18 years ago.  Someone back then would need cable to (legally) watch MNF. What ways of watching football for "free" existed in 2004 that no longer exist now?

You said kids would eventually stop watching football and move on to other things.  What facts do you have to support that scenario is happening or imminent, or that interest in the NFL has waned?

You can get something for much cheaper than $120.

Your stance seems to assume that people HAVE to get NFL Sunday Ticket to enjoy football, or pay some crazy prices.  And that isn't true.  You can get a quality digital antenna for $30.  If you bought cable 20 years ago, then guess what?  You can still get cable.  It still exists.  Or you can get Youtube TV or Fubo.  That is why I'm missing your point. You can enjoy football the same way you did on Sundays back in your day, people just have more options/ways to consume it.

Hell, you can get NFL+ for 6.99/month or 49.99/year.  That's cheaper than cable, if your goal is just to watch football.

Just as I am failing to see your point.  Why would someone who is poor now be more likely to fall out of love with football than someone who was poor in 2004?  Is there any data that suggests the more well off a family is, the more likely their son is to watch and/or play football?

I'm going to start with this study that supports my comment about youth turning to other things. SUPER FANCY LINK <- please read. Again, this supports my point that you're "failing to see".

And my goodness, you respond like I'm attacking someone. I'm simply stating that things are slowly getting out of hand. 20 (even 25) years ago football absolutely was on FOX and CBS. Now, perhaps this was in my area and not yours, but it went like this. FOX carried the NFC, CBS carried the AFC, and NBC had Sunday Night Football. MNF was on ESPN.

Also in my very specific area, cheap antenna don't work due to large metal and concrete grain storage structures, so yes, cheaper options are available, but they don't work worth a crap.

I really appreciate that you don't have a money problem. Good for you! Truly. Some people aren't as lucky, and that is my point. Read through this thread and you'll see that you're either paying, pirating, or watching whatever the local broadcast is. These 3 things are a fact.