What do you do if you're the Chicago Bears?

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

That's what she said!

She did. That what she said. Except the opposite. 

 

1 hour ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

That would be some pretty slick dealing if they could pull that off.  Ryan Poles has been doing a good job as of late, but I'd have to say he is no Sonny Weaver Jr. when it comes to draft day trades.  Only the Browns have a guy like that running their front office.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2223990/mediaviewer/rm3569471744/?ref_=tt_ov_i

Except the opposite for the Browns. 

And I dunno...Poles traded down last year and got the #1 pick in a hot QB draft. That's pretty slick dealing IYAT.

[Teen Girl Squad]

14 hours ago, Sugashane said:

If you're too scared to make a decision then you need to stick to scouting and just hand your reports in to the GM. I've said it a number of time, I don't mind PAce trading for Mack and picking the QB. I don't even mind him trading up for the pick. If you get a franchise QB then it was absolute peanuts being traded. He simply missed on the pick. If there was Mahomes or Watson as the pick then the Bears likely get a ring in 2018, and would be a threat for one in 2019 as well.

Hopefully Poles and Co. feel 100% like Williams is the pick or think Maye is and just take them. Like you said, don't get cute and just take the guy.

Agreed. I'd also throw in that being in position to draft a guy

 

13 hours ago, Tugboat said:

It's honestly just kind of rude to hold a franchise hostage as a GM...by refusing to go "all in" on a Top Pick QB when the opportunity presents itself.

 

I get that it's precarious.  But if you wait for an Andrew Luck or Trevor Lawrence to come along...you're going to be waiting longer than your tenure as GM.  Heck, you literally only get one or two of those in a generation and only one team gets them.  Luck was the guy for Millennials (he retired early and never got there).  Lawrence was the GenZ guy (and as much as i'm still convinced, it hasn't gone perfectly as anticipated either).

 

You just aren't going anywhere without a Franchise QB.  So you've gotta put yourself out there and try.  Grab the guy you think can do it when you have control of the entire draft.  Even though...yeah...they've got flaws.

 

It's where, when it comes to a QB Top-10...my thoughts skew toward the idea that you should probably be comfortable with that guy Top-3.  If you wouldn't take 'em in the Top-3 and tie yourself permanently to them, you're probably not that sold on them.  So you shouldn't take that guy Top-10.  So i understand being a little QB shy in that respect.  But when you've got the #1 pick and there are multiple stylings of QB to choose from?  Just take the guy.

 

That's where i think Patriots at #3 are in a potentially awkward spot.  Especially given the state of their team overall.  Maybe it makes sense for them to pass.  But not Chicago or Washington.

 

The whole thing with Pace is pretty much how i feel as a Jaguars fan.  I wasn't completely sold on Gabbert, but it was like...well...they had the guts to go up and get their guy.  Let's see how it rides.  And then the Bortle thing.  I really didn't like him but at the same time, if you don't even try, what are you really doing?  Wasting time basically.  As a fan at least...just make the pick and let's see how it turns out.  If you're right you've got an extremely long leash.  If you're wrong...NEXT.

Because there is almost always QB needy teams on top, I think its easy to underrate how difficult it is to even be in position to draft a real prospect, let alone hit on one. Its not like you can save up 'draft capital,' put 'elite QB' on your Amazon wishlist and buy when it goes on sale. Its why I'm a big proponent of take a shot if you think there is a real shot/guy you like and you are in position to get him.

Trying to build your roster, then plop your franchise QB in later puts you into a position like the Vikings, or 49ers 2 years ago. You need to trade a ton of assets to draft the 3rd or 4th option and hope for the best. Honestly I think the results of the 21' class is the right approach. Draft QBs, give them 2-3 years and aggressively move on if they aren't the guy. The real issue with the Gabberts and Bortles is when you stick to years 4-5+ on hopium. Data and anecdote show pretty conclusively that the vast majority of franchise QBs will be good within 2-3 years of starting (not at their peak but more than enough proof of concept).

[mdonnelly21]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:08 PM, NudeTayne said:

If Chicago can pull a Texans and end up with 2, 3 with a QB and Marvin for 1, 9 after a few trades then I'd be trying to make that happen. MHJ is worth the #1 pick if they didn't need a QB most.

You're saying end up with picks 2 and 3? I'd be curios to know how they could make that happen. 

Maybe trade 1 for 2. A 3rd round, and 6th. Then package those 3rd, 6th, the 9th. Next years 2nd. And maybe next years 1st to move up to 3. 

I'd be curios to know who the Bears would take between MHJ or Malik Nabers in that way. 

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, mdonnelly21 said:

You're saying end up with picks 2 and 3? I'd be curios to know how they could make that happen. 

Maybe trade 1 for 2. A 3rd round, and 6th. Then package those 3rd, 6th, the 9th. Next years 2nd. And maybe next years 1st to move up to 3. 

I'd be curios to know who the Bears would take between MHJ or Malik Nabers in that way. 

Think it’d take a lot more, tbh. Last year’s draft isn’t this year’s. The Commanders essentially trading just a 3rd and 6th for Caleb Williams would be highway robbery. And I doubt NE takes them out of that QB/blue chip prospect range for that package. 

This year’s prospects at the top are looked at more fondly than last year’s, IMO. 

[mdonnelly21]

46 minutes ago, Soko said:

Think it’d take a lot more, tbh. Last year’s draft isn’t this year’s. The Commanders essentially trading just a 3rd and 6th for Caleb Williams would be highway robbery. And I doubt NE takes them out of that QB/blue chip prospect range for that package. 

This year’s prospects at the top are looked at more fondly than last year’s, IMO. 

You're right about it taking a lot more. It's just very difficult to figure out how much more to move up just 1 spot. 

In even if it took another 2nd round, a future 2nd, and 3rd. 

Its just more picks that we could put from 9 to move up to 3 if we wanted. 

So let me ask you this. 

Would it take more to move up from 2 to 1 or from 9 to 3? That's 1 spot to 6 spots. 

[NudeTayne]

3 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said:

You're saying end up with picks 2 and 3? I'd be curios to know how they could make that happen. 

Maybe trade 1 for 2. A 3rd round, and 6th. Then package those 3rd, 6th, the 9th. Next years 2nd. And maybe next years 1st to move up to 3. 

I'd be curios to know who the Bears would take between MHJ or Malik Nabers in that way. 

They're getting WAY more to move from 1 to 2. That is how it is done. If Washington moves to 1 it costs at least a first, probably a little more.

And they'd take MHJ IMO. Nabers is legit, but I don't think he's jumping to WR1.

Edited April 10 by NudeTayne

[NudeTayne]

2 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said:

You're right about it taking a lot more. It's just very difficult to figure out how much more to move up just 1 spot. 

In even if it took another 2nd round, a future 2nd, and 3rd. 

Its just more picks that we could put from 9 to move up to 3 if we wanted. 

So let me ask you this. 

Would it take more to move up from 2 to 1 or from 9 to 3? That's 1 spot to 6 spots. 

My original thought was that those two moves are close enough to a wash as far as compensation that it could be done if all parties wanted to move.

[Sugashane]

The only way I think CHI could get MHJ is to trade up with LAC while AZ trades out of 1.4. I think Williams, Maye, Daniels go 1-3 and then either someone gets desperate enough to trade up to 1.4 for JJ or AZ picks him. AZ either will get the haul for a QB or they will take the best prospect in the draft that happens to be at a massive position of need for them.

QBs going 1-4 would be the first time in NFL history though I think. There have been QBs going 1-3 twice (2021 and 1999) I know of.

Edit - I'd guess LAC would charge 1.9 and the Bears 2025 2nd to snag 1.5 and take MHJ. AZ has 6 selections in the top 90 of this draft so any trade for 1.4 likely involves heavy capital next year or MIN's two 1sts this year plus a sweetener for 2025. I think AZ takes MHJ and LAC is the trade back party with MIN.

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

The only way I think CHI could get MHJ is to trade up with LAC while AZ trades out of 1.4. I think Williams, Maye, Daniels go 1-3 and then either someone gets desperate enough to trade up to 1.4 for JJ or AZ picks him. AZ either will get the haul for a QB or they will take the best prospect in the draft that happens to be at a massive position of need for them.

QBs going 1-4 would be the first time in NFL history though I think. There have been QBs going 1-3 twice (2021 and 1999) I know of.

Edit - I'd guess LAC would charge 1.9 and the Bears 2025 2nd to snag 1.5 and take MHJ. AZ has 6 selections in the top 90 of this draft so any trade for 1.4 likely involves heavy capital next year or MIN's two 1sts this year plus a sweetener for 2025. I think AZ takes MHJ and LAC is the trade back party with MIN.

My guess is the Bears mentally crossed MHJ/Nabers off their list when they went out and got Keenan Allen. Hard to justify trading up for a 3rd WR, even if eventually they'd be a superstar. I could see them trading up 1-2 spots to make sure they get Alt if they don't like the edge guys, but when your needs are WR, OT, and EDGE trading up doesn't make sense.

And I'd absolutely keep that 2025 2nd rounder, because if Williams is good the time to trade up for the luxury WR is next year IMO.

[Sugashane]

40 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

My guess is the Bears mentally crossed MHJ/Nabers off their list when they went out and got Keenan Allen. Hard to justify trading up for a 3rd WR, even if eventually they'd be a superstar. I could see them trading up 1-2 spots to make sure they get Alt if they don't like the edge guys, but when your needs are WR, OT, and EDGE trading up doesn't make sense.

And I'd absolutely keep that 2025 2nd rounder, because if Williams is good the time to trade up for the luxury WR is next year IMO.

To be fair I wouldn't be looking to trade up either, but I would still be looking at OT/WR/EDGE at 1.9. Keenan was an awesome pick up for a 4th but has not been extended yet (I don't do twitter so IDK if they are in the works or if that is simply being shelved for later at TC or something) and I'm not sold on Tyler Scott or Velus Jones as WR3, let alone having to step in as WR2 in Moore or Allen go down. 

The Bears stupidly drafted Fields under a lame duck HC and a GM that was simply trying to save his job, then Poles came in and blew the roster up because of Pace's "win now" moves backfiring. I'd choose to do what I wanted the Bears to do with Fields, say to hell with the defense and overload the offense for right now. Help the QB grow and as players price out/age out keep replacing them with picks, but try to get a few blue chip talents to build around. I'd 100% be fin with Moore/Allen/(rookie in the 1st) and even then extending Allen. 

If Williams hits then you give him a ton of help as he develops and acclimates to the NFL game.  I am looking at the next 4 years as my chance to take a swing on what might get called luxury picks, and will take the guy I think is a future superstar even if it is a luxury pick over the guy that fills a gap now but has a much lower ceiling. A single top WR or OT in the NFL only moves the needle so much for a team (Joe Thomas got to play in one playoff game his rookie year and then never went again, Marshall was a stud WR who never saw the playoffs) but incompetence will hurt like hell. But if you can develop a franchise QB your outlook for the franchise is far better than most, so I want to invest as heavily into Williams as possible on his rookie deal.

Now if Alt or Fashanu are there at 1.9 I would have a hard time picking Odunze over them, I still say I would prefer Jones to kick into C and put one of them at LT. I'd have already at least contacted DJ Chark, Gallup or even Michael Thomas -in that order- to come in to be WR3 (Thomas would have low expectations but to be a WR 3 Scott would have to at least be able to beat him out). I'd call OBJ and Boyd before those three, but I'm sure they'd be out of the price range. *shrugs*

[mdonnelly21]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

To be fair I wouldn't be looking to trade up either, but I would still be looking at OT/WR/EDGE at 1.9. Keenan was an awesome pick up for a 4th but has not been extended yet (I don't do twitter so IDK if they are in the works or if that is simply being shelved for later at TC or something) and I'm not sold on Tyler Scott or Velus Jones as WR3, let alone having to step in as WR2 in Moore or Allen go down. 

The Bears stupidly drafted Fields under a lame duck HC and a GM that was simply trying to save his job, then Poles came in and blew the roster up because of Pace's "win now" moves backfiring. I'd choose to do what I wanted the Bears to do with Fields, say to hell with the defense and overload the offense for right now. Help the QB grow and as players price out/age out keep replacing them with picks, but try to get a few blue chip talents to build around. I'd 100% be fin with Moore/Allen/(rookie in the 1st) and even then extending Allen. 

If Williams hits then you give him a ton of help as he develops and acclimates to the NFL game.  I am looking at the next 4 years as my chance to take a swing on what might get called luxury picks, and will take the guy I think is a future superstar even if it is a luxury pick over the guy that fills a gap now but has a much lower ceiling. A single top WR or OT in the NFL only moves the needle so much for a team (Joe Thomas got to play in one playoff game his rookie year and then never went again, Marshall was a stud WR who never saw the playoffs) but incompetence will hurt like hell. But if you can develop a franchise QB your outlook for the franchise is far better than most, so I want to invest as heavily into Williams as possible on his rookie deal.

Now if Alt or Fashanu are there at 1.9 I would have a hard time picking Odunze over them, I still say I would prefer Jones to kick into C and put one of them at LT. I'd have already at least contacted DJ Chark, Gallup or even Michael Thomas -in that order- to come in to be WR3 (Thomas would have low expectations but to be a WR 3 Scott would have to at least be able to beat him out). I'd call OBJ and Boyd before those three, but I'm sure they'd be out of the price range. *shrugs*

I just don't think Jones was bad enough that we need a LT. As far as loading up on offense. I'm 100000% agreement. 

Not just for the sake of investing in Caleb. As a Bears fan the last 25 years our offense has been our downfall besides like 1-2 seasons max. I'm sick and tired of hearing that. I even did a thread not to long ago saying how i would take offense in all 9 picks and I meant it. (Not that it would ever happen) 

That's just how naseuos I am of hearing the same thing over and over. 

I think my concern most with the Bears is our Interior O line. 

When I hear we got rotational guys in the offseason that tells me whoever the QB is will be running for his life. Rotational is nice but should never be a focal point for starters. 

If I'm being completely honest, I'd rather trade that 9 pick down to like 18 pick up a second. Draft C from Oregon who's supposed to be one of the better C prospects in a while. And draft again the best available interior offense. Guards. 

I don't want any room for O line not to make sure it's not growing with Caleb. And atm our Tackles are the least of our concerns on the O line. 

[General Tso]

At this point, they probably should trade down from 9. That being said, I don't know who would be wanting to trade up to 9. 

But if they can trade down from 9 and get some more picks (since they have only 4 in this draft) an get one of Brian Thomas/Verse/Latu that seems better than just Odunze.

[Ty21]

12 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

My guess is the Bears mentally crossed MHJ/Nabers off their list when they went out and got Keenan Allen. Hard to justify trading up for a 3rd WR, even if eventually they'd be a superstar. I could see them trading up 1-2 spots to make sure they get Alt if they don't like the edge guys, but when your needs are WR, OT, and EDGE trading up doesn't make sense.

And I'd absolutely keep that 2025 2nd rounder, because if Williams is good the time to trade up for the luxury WR is next year IMO.

People like to debate this because Allen is a very temporary fix, but 2024 also isn’t the last year a highly touted wr will be in a draft. WR is my favorite position, so I’d certainly enjoy seeing one of the three come here but really you don’t need to have a historic wr corps immediately. 

[Docknstein11]

On 3/28/2024 at 1:11 PM, sparky151 said:

Bears O-line is mostly decent. The tackles are good with some upside from Wright. Jenkins is a very good LG though he has an injury history. Patrick was terrible at center and has been replaced by Shelton/Bates. Davis is probably a below average (and expensive) RG. 

So they aren't going to use pick 9 for an interior O-lineman. I'd guess the edge opposite Sweat is the most likely choice at 9 if there isn't a trade down. 

I could see them taking Fuaga or Fautanu and starting them at RG as a rookie. Should easily supplant Davis at RG and really strengthen the line. They could move to tackle down the road.

Edited April 11 by Docknstein11

[ramssuperbowl99]

9 hours ago, Sugashane said:

To be fair I wouldn't be looking to trade up either, but I would still be looking at OT/WR/EDGE at 1.9. Keenan was an awesome pick up for a 4th but has not been extended yet (I don't do twitter so IDK if they are in the works or if that is simply being shelved for later at TC or something) and I'm not sold on Tyler Scott or Velus Jones as WR3, let alone having to step in as WR2 in Moore or Allen go down. 

The Bears stupidly drafted Fields under a lame duck HC and a GM that was simply trying to save his job, then Poles came in and blew the roster up because of Pace's "win now" moves backfiring. I'd choose to do what I wanted the Bears to do with Fields, say to hell with the defense and overload the offense for right now. Help the QB grow and as players price out/age out keep replacing them with picks, but try to get a few blue chip talents to build around. I'd 100% be fin with Moore/Allen/(rookie in the 1st) and even then extending Allen. 

If Williams hits then you give him a ton of help as he develops and acclimates to the NFL game.  I am looking at the next 4 years as my chance to take a swing on what might get called luxury picks, and will take the guy I think is a future superstar even if it is a luxury pick over the guy that fills a gap now but has a much lower ceiling. A single top WR or OT in the NFL only moves the needle so much for a team (Joe Thomas got to play in one playoff game his rookie year and then never went again, Marshall was a stud WR who never saw the playoffs) but incompetence will hurt like hell. But if you can develop a franchise QB your outlook for the franchise is far better than most, so I want to invest as heavily into Williams as possible on his rookie deal.

Now if Alt or Fashanu are there at 1.9 I would have a hard time picking Odunze over them, I still say I would prefer Jones to kick into C and put one of them at LT. I'd have already at least contacted DJ Chark, Gallup or even Michael Thomas -in that order- to come in to be WR3 (Thomas would have low expectations but to be a WR 3 Scott would have to at least be able to beat him out). I'd call OBJ and Boyd before those three, but I'm sure they'd be out of the price range. *shrugs*

Yeah I didn't mention it, but the dream is always to trade down.

I wouldn't really think of LT/WR as a luxury picks either, that's part of why I wouldn't think trading up is a good idea, you've gotta get those guys at some point, and like you said, it's urgent so probably in the next draft if not this one. With all the picks and cap space, I don't think the 4th rounders and back matter as much, but conservation of those high picks is still important. To me, the luxury pick would be a guy like Bowers (but obviously that's not a need with Kmet). Though admittedly it's a little old school to think of the receiving TE as a luxury and the LT as a need, I'm still a huge proponent of drafting QB/OT/EDGE/WR/CB in round 1 for the most part just based on scarcity and second contract value.

 

The more I think it over, the more appealing it would be to have the OL effectively done before Williams even takes a snap. Spend an extra 4th rounder if they need, but Alt/Fasanu at LT, Wright at RT, and Jones at C is every major OL spot done. Get Jones an extension at C next year if he plays well (and I'd imagine he'd be really good there), and then let those guys grow together. Yes, you'd still need someone besides Moore if Allen doesn't stick around, or even if he does as the 3rd guy, but if you're picking around 20 next year that seems achievable.