Jakuvious Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 The problem is that people use being a first ballot as an accolade, when half the time it's just a matter of timing. Plenty of guys have been first ballot when they wouldn't have been if they were eligible a year earlier or later, and vice versa. It's as much about the competition as anything else. Like, obviously Brady would be first ballot in literally any class, but most inductees it's a question of who they're up against. Anyway, yes, Jones should make the hall. He'd be a slam dunk if he wasn't a contemporary to Donald. But the post-season play and accolades will put hi over the top, still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 16 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: The problem is that people use being a first ballot as an accolade, when half the time it's just a matter of timing. Plenty of guys have been first ballot when they wouldn't have been if they were eligible a year earlier or later, and vice versa. It's as much about the competition as anything else. Like, obviously Brady would be first ballot in literally any class, but most inductees it's a question of who they're up against. Anyway, yes, Jones should make the hall. He'd be a slam dunk if he wasn't a contemporary to Donald. But the post-season play and accolades will put hi over the top, still. IIRC only guys who have over 100 sacks made it. He’s a ways from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 16 minutes ago, El Ramster said: IIRC only guys who have over 100 sacks made it. He’s a ways from that. What? Warren Sapp, Cortez Kennedy, Richard Seymour, Howie Long, Bryant Young. And that's just the guys who had less than 100 who played while sacks were tracked officially. Throw in all the guys with unofficial sack numbers pre-1982, you get a ton of other DL, especially DTs. Merlin Olsen, Bob Lilly, Joe Green, Buck Buchanan, Fred Dean, Curley Culp, etc. John Randle and Aaron Donald are the only DTs in NFL history that officially have 100+ sacks. I think there might be 4 total if you count the unofficial tracking. I think Randy White and Alan Page get there. But, point being, the vast majority of DTs in the hall have less than 100 sacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 6 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said: Chris Jones would have 5 1st team all-pros if not for the greatest defensive player of all-time. He's a 1st ballot HOF. I mean that isn't a great way to look at it. Yes Donald (I don't think he's the greatest ever but that isn't relevant right now) was 1st team all 3 of Jones 2nd team years, but it isn't like there is only 1 DT position. Each of those years there was a 2nd guy that beat him for the other spot. So it isn't that 1 player cost him a 1st team spot. I don't think he is in the hall of fame YET. But he certainly has done enough to say I would expect him to get to that by the end of his career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, ET80 said: Agree. First ballot is reserved for guys you know by a single name - Brady, Manning, Moss, Owens, Brees, Donald, Watt, Gronk. Chris isn't on that level. He's fantastic, but not transcendent. Eli Saquon Tiki Plaxico Shockey Snee Osi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 14 hours ago, FrantikRam said: I think AD is probably the best interior DL ever - or at least in the conversation. Not really fair to Chris Jones to hold that as the standard when many other HoF players probably don't stack up to AD either. Id say given his playoff performance he should get in. I shouldn't compare him to other HOF level players who played in his same era when evaluating if he should be in the HOF or not? That makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 28 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I shouldn't compare him to other HOF level players who played in his same era when evaluating if he should be in the HOF or not? That makes no sense. The point is you can be worse than another hall of famer, and still be a hall of famer. Did Antonio Gates have a career on the same level as Tony Gonzalez? Was Ben Roethlisberger on the level of Tom Brady? Did Howie Long match up to Reggie White? Steve Largent to Jerry Rice? Was Zach Thomas the equal to Ray Lewis? He can be worse than Aaron Donald, and still be a hall of fame level player. If your standard is Aaron Donald or J.J. Watt, you're going to wind up with Aaron Donald and J.J. Watt being the only defensive lineman from the past 15 years making the hall of fame. Jones is not Donald, but his career is shaping up to be better than any other DT of his era. That matters too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 14 hours ago, game3525 said: lol Some fans throw around this term like it is nothing. It is extremely hard to be a first ballot Hofer. It is also really hard to get into the HOF in general as an interior defensive lineman. Kevin Williams has 5 first team all pro selection and was on the all-decade team and is still waiting. Does Williams have any SB Rings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 50 minutes ago, Chiefer said: Does Williams have any SB Rings? I don't think lack of rings is why Williams isn't in the HOF. If rings matter that much, then Richard Seymour wouldn't have had to wait. Voters just overlook interior defensive lineman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 8 minutes ago, game3525 said: I don't think lack of rings is why Williams isn't in the HOF. If rings matter that much, then Richard Seymour wouldn't have had to wait. Voters just overlook interior defensive lineman. Truth, but Seymour is in and Williams isn’t, Rings are still a valid part of the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: The point is you can be worse than another hall of famer, and still be a hall of famer. Did Antonio Gates have a career on the same level as Tony Gonzalez? Was Ben Roethlisberger on the level of Tom Brady? Did Howie Long match up to Reggie White? Steve Largent to Jerry Rice? Was Zach Thomas the equal to Ray Lewis? He can be worse than Aaron Donald, and still be a hall of fame level player. If your standard is Aaron Donald or J.J. Watt, you're going to wind up with Aaron Donald and J.J. Watt being the only defensive lineman from the past 15 years making the hall of fame. Jones is not Donald, but his career is shaping up to be better than any other DT of his era. That matters too. And as much as I love AD, Jones has been as good or better in the playoffs, which matters to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: The point is you can be worse than another hall of famer, and still be a hall of famer. Did Antonio Gates have a career on the same level as Tony Gonzalez? Was Ben Roethlisberger on the level of Tom Brady? Did Howie Long match up to Reggie White? Steve Largent to Jerry Rice? Was Zach Thomas the equal to Ray Lewis? He can be worse than Aaron Donald, and still be a hall of fame level player. If your standard is Aaron Donald or J.J. Watt, you're going to wind up with Aaron Donald and J.J. Watt being the only defensive lineman from the past 15 years making the hall of fame. Jones is not Donald, but his career is shaping up to be better than any other DT of his era. That matters too. Totally irrelevant to your larger point, but I still stand on Ben not belonging in. It’s not a Chris Jones situation where it’s really just one, GOATish guy standing in his way. Was really 4 of them, and even then Ben would only moonlight as the next guy up in the following tier of players. He wasn’t exactly the bonafide 5th guy, ahead of Rivers, Ryan, Warner, Romo in the first half, and then Luck, Wilson, Dak, Stafford in the second half. He was next up sometimes, but not most of it. So yeah, Ben could be worse than those 4 HOFers, and still be a HOFer, but I think you should draw a line at some point. Your overall point stands, though. If you’re consistently second to a guy whose some call the GOAT at this position, that shouldn’t be a nail in your HOF coffin. At least, not the final nail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Quote Totally irrelevant to your larger point, but I still stand on Ben not belonging in. Eh, it is hard to keep Ben out if Warren Moon and Troy Aikman are in. Plus only 4 QBs from that era (2000s-10s) making it to the HOF is on the low end. The 90s only had 6 guys get in and I don't think the 90s era was better then 2000s-10s when it comes to QB play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 19 hours ago, El Ramster said: He’s been the second best DT with the highest peak imo. He’s better than Cox and many more. He’s been asked to anchor a really bad defense early on, while being the only focal point. Now that he’s older and less explosive he’s still a game changer and wrecks shop. Has the accolades and SBs to get in, but not a first a ballot. You need to be goated to get in the first ballot. He’s been awesome and I remember wanting him more when I saw his 3rd leg in the 40 yard dash. That’s a baseball bat he could use to beat Oline men up. Cox was on pace around 2018 or so, but not as much anymore. He's still good, but definitely dropped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 He can solidify his spot by signing with the Raiders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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