2024 Rookie Minicamp, OTA's & Training Camp

[{Family Ghost}]

34 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

That is a probable outcome.  And unfortunate.  Rhyan should be better than that.

Rhyan has added C to his bag, so perhaps his chance to lockdown a full starting gig comes next year if they let Myers walk.  LaFleur raised questions about Rhyan's conditioning level recently, so that's another knock against Rhyan.  He's been a pretty big disappointment, but I still think there's something there. 

[vegas492]

23 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

Hes a strong mobile dude who needs to develop his anchor. Like the biggest ? On him at guard is, can he stop someone from running straight through his face? And with EJ on the other side you can afford to slant myers to the right when we can. 

Pre draft i was starting to come around more and more on Morgan. Was still a Guyton guy but yeah the versatility is a clear lean.

I didnt like Barton as much. Dont think JPJ (this is powers-johnson were referencing right?) was a fit at all. I was on Morgan or Guyton. Frazier as a G only also lowers that value but feel pretty good about him being a dude.

We havent seen anything to judge, but the guys who have make it seem like Morgan belongs.

I really like JPJ, yes Powers Johnson.  But I saw a center/guard with him.  I think he would have been a great fit because we had a need at both guard and center, depending on how you look at Myers/Rhyan and their respective contracts.  I didn't like it in round one, though.

I didn't like Guyton all that much, because he is pretty raw as well.  But he has high end tackle traits.  You are right, though, size likely knocked him down.

Morgan does fit what we want at tackle.  I don't feel like he fits at guard too much, though.  And that could very well be because I don't think he can move guys, or stone guys like I want.  And the reality is that maybe he can.  This much I know, the guy has feet.

[HighCalebR]

8 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I really like JPJ, yes Powers Johnson.  But I saw a center/guard with him.  I think he would have been a great fit because we had a need at both guard and center, depending on how you look at Myers/Rhyan and their respective contracts.  I didn't like it in round one, though.

I didn't like Guyton all that much, because he is pretty raw as well.  But he has high end tackle traits.  You are right, though, size likely knocked him down.

Morgan does fit what we want at tackle.  I don't feel like he fits at guard too much, though.  And that could very well be because I don't think he can move guys, or stone guys like I want.  And the reality is that maybe he can.  This much I know, the guy has feet.

I just dont think JPJ moves well enough for MLF. Great in the phone booth though.

If he can swivel his hips on reaches get to the 2nd level and get out in front on the edge ill sacrifice a little of the power game

Im not really worried about our line as a whole this year

[vegas492]

10 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

I just dont think JPJ moves well enough for MLF. Great in the phone booth though.

If he can swivel his hips on reaches get to the 2nd level and get out in front on the edge ill sacrifice a little of the power game

Im not really worried about our line as a whole this year

True that, about JPJ.  He wasn't the straight line athlete, but the power and fight was undeniable.  He would have been a very good RG or C for us.

No doubt in my mind that Morgan's feet will let him get to the second level.  Lots of doubt in my mind that he can hold up to a bull rush in his face.  Lots of doubt about whether or not he can be physical enough or dirty enough to play RG.

And that's the fun thing, we will know soon enough.  And as stated earlier, it may be very wise to platoon that RG spot again.

[craig]

Vegas, I think where I see it differently with Morgan is you're saying that drafting for guard isn't a great value at 26, and that Morgan doesn't project that well at guard.  If you wanted to draft a guard, you'd have preferred somebody with more power.  

I think the Packers were not drafting him to "be a guard".  They were drafting him to be a tackle, or maybe call it swing.  A tackle who can play guard for the moment, while we've got two better tackles ahead of him.  He essentially covers three positions. 

For the moment, Tom and Walker project to open the season healthy. 

• But do you trust that they'll stay healthy for 17 games plus playoffs? 
• And do you trust that both will sign extensions with the Packers? 
• Seems to me that having somebody with better tackle capacity than Dillard and Tenuta is a pretty urgent value.  '
• So, if Morgan starts at guard, while both Tom and Walker are healthy and playing well, and while both remain under contract, that's wonderful.  Once one of them gets hurt, or leaves in FA, he should be positioned to transition to one of the tackle positions.  

So yeah, I guess I'm reasoning that "swing" is what they drafted him to be.  

Obviously a question is whether he'll actually be any good in any of those roles.  Will he be any good at guard?  Or not really, due to lack of power?  Will be actually be any good at tackle, if/when his opportunity knocks?  Lots of late-first-rounders just never really do become good at any role (Hello, Mr. Dillard), so we'll just have to wait and see with Morgan.  

[MantyWrestler]

6 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

Other than possibly RB, if a team comes out of pick 25 with a legit starter on offense or defense, that's a win to me.  If Morgan develops similar to Jenkins in that his best position is G, but he can slide out to T when needed, that's a win for Gute and the Packers.

I feel like this is exactly what Green Bay was thinking when they drafted him. 

[MantyWrestler]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Again, I like that you feel that way.  I do not.  It is as simple as that.

Why?  Because I felt like there were better pure guards in the draft than Morgan.  As an armchair talent evaluator, probably at a skill level less than amateur, nothing on his tape screamed guard to me.  Feet were too good to waste at guard.  Power was not evident for NFL guard.

So if we wanted a guard, guess I feel like Barton, JPP and Frazier were better guard prospects.  Couple were centers, too.

If we really wanted someone to compete at tackle while also cross training at guard, that was Barton.

If we wanted a tackle with high end traits to develop, that was Guyton.

But we chose Morgan.  I had him ranked below a few other guys that may have fit us a little better.

But Morgan is our guy, so I'll emphasize the positives that I see.  Feet, brain, length.  He can play...somewhere.

The Packers value versatility. Getting a pure OT is an undrafted free agent thing for them. 

Barton doesn’t have OT skills of Morgan and Guyton is strictly an OT. Morgan CAN be a starting OT and maybe an OG on par with all pro like Jenkins

[MantyWrestler]

4 hours ago, vegas492 said:

It's not that tough to understand.

I feel like if they wanted a guard, better guards were available.

If the plan was to get a tackle, better tackles were available.

If they wanted someone versatile, better guys were available.

Coming out of the draft with a "tweener" on the OL is not a good outcome for a first round pick.  

Like if you are going to take a flier, take one on a guy at a more premium position than guard.  

That's why I feel like his home is tackle.  It is what makes the most sense given where he was taken as well as his skillset.  Him playing guard now tells me that Rhyan has been less than stellar and Walker has been improved.

You bring up Jenkins, which is interesting.  He was versatile in college.  But it looks like he just was not up to "it" at tackle.  Maybe the injury had something to do with that.  Also?  That guard wasn't taken in the first round, further emphasizing the fact that you can find quality guards outside of round one.

To me the difference between Morgan and Jenkins is that Morgan looks like he could truly be a starting left tackle whereas Jenkins can fill in a tackle but more than likely, he’s a guard or center.

[Leader]

 

[Old Guy]

WOW! Anybody dogging me for the way I go after Newman needs to shhhhhhhh. After reading this **** about Morgan, who by all accounts was going to start for us, is a bit puzzling. I was not thrilled with the Morgan pick. I wanted a different player at a different position. 

If we're still in the, "I'm a better talent evaluator the Gute." Something is seriously wrong. 

Morgan seems to be giving us options, which turns into leverage come contract time for Rasheed Walker. 

For posters to state, "there were better guards available. There were better tackles available. There were better guys who could do both available." 

Who in the F are we kidding? Nobody knows that at this point, including the guys who actually made the picks. Until the pads go on for real, nobody knows who drafted well and who didn't. 

It's all good conversation though. 

For me, "in Gute I trust!" 

[GHARMON9]

Im not going to act like I remember but wasn't Newman decent as a rookie? The regression is wild lol.

[Mazrimiv]

31 minutes ago, GHARMON9 said:

Im not going to act like I remember but wasn't Newman decent as a rookie? The regression is wild lol.

He must have hung out with Nijmen.

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, GHARMON9 said:

Im not going to act like I remember but wasn't Newman decent as a rookie? The regression is wild lol.

No, he was just all we had. 

[ThatJerkDave]

54 minutes ago, GHARMON9 said:

Im not going to act like I remember but wasn't Newman decent as a rookie? The regression is wild lol.

I think Newman was about what he is now as a rookie.  When you look at rookies, most of the time "okay" is fine.  The technique should get better, and the player should get stronger.  If he doesn't make that jump in years 2 or 3, what was passed off as a rookie mistake no longer gets that excuse.  He is a veteran now.  He may even be better, but he isn't better enough (and no, I don't care about PFF grades).  

As far as him making the team, it is just a matter of picking the evil you know vs the evil you don't.  They have a lot of info on what Royce can and cannot do, most of the other back-ups, they do not.  And to that point, I can see how they may be more comfortable with Royce playing 15 snaps when someone gets injured at the end of a game.  

In any event, I am trying to be positive about all of the players vying for a roster spot.  And shooting down people that want to keep 7 WRs.

[Brat&Beer]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

No, he was just all we had. 

My recollection of Newman was that he played well enough in the preseason of 2021 to win the RG position (over Patrick?). He struggled the first half of the season but then played much better the second half. There was some optimism about him going into 2022 but he reverted back to struggles of early 2021 and has never recovered. I think the Packers would like to see someone beat him out (Tenuta is getting reps at guard), but it hasn't happened yet.