The Official 2024 Raider Draft Day Thread

[Jeremy408]

My take on it is simple. If we had drafted Terrion Arnold at 13 over brock bowers everyone would be happy because we filled the need at corner.

But when it comes down to it who is a better player Terrion arnold(arguably the best corner in the draft but an average athlete who ran a 4.5) or brock bowers(top three player in the draft overall and widely considered the best TE Prospect in years & potential generational talent). The thing with that is when you take Terrion Arnold in that scenario you have to account for the fact that

1. He might not even be the best corner in this draft. I'm not even sure if he's the best player on his team but that's a different story. Mitchell was taken ahead of him at 22. Are two things that stand out about that: he wasn't picked first and corners weren't picked until the 20s which shows you what most people thought about the cornerback class this year. 

2. Corner is much more likely to come out with top talent every year then tight end. Are you may be thinking to yourself "why does that actually matter if we don't need a tight end?". It matters because if in two years he's one of the three best tight end in football and we have one of the best skill position groups in the NFL that's a lot better than filling a one year need. It's why the best player available approach matters so much because I need to change from year to year. For example, we didn't get a quarterback. Let's say that Aiden O'Connell and .minshew struggle to get DeVonta the ball like he wants to and say DeVonta wants to get traded. Now we can say that we have all fence of talent elsewhere and that if we lost Devante we could still say that we will be able to move the ball and the passing game for whoever rookie quarterback we will bring in in the future without having to start over. What if next year is a better quarterback class than this year and that causes talent to fall and we're able to do with the ravens did this year and get another one of the arguably best corners in the draft lower in the first round. Then it doesn't really matter that we took Bowers. thats kind of the point call BPA. Your team continues to get better regardless of need

Another important thing to note is that guard was actually a bigger need than tackle but we didn't talk about that much because of the fact that

1. Guards are easy to find

2. And this is an amazing tackle draft

But what we were able to do in the second round was get a player that I actually thought would be the best player available by the time we picked if all the quarterbacks were gone(because I thought Bowers was going to go either fifth to the chargers 9th to the bears or 11th to the Jets. Hell I might've done that if I was the Falcons because Kirk cousins loves TEs & even the Titans couldve taken him) in JPJ. For us to get that guy in the second round who I thought him and Joe all were the two best lineman in the entire draft if position was equal. Sure you could've drafted Kingsley or Rosengarten I'm not sure that they would go on to be an all pro level player in the way I'm absolutely sure that JPJ would. That's why best player available makes the most sense. That allows you to improve your football team overall by just getting good players so that even if you're deficient at some positions you are great at others rather than just being average at almost everything. It's why I was a big fan of spending a lot of money to get Wilkins and not really signing anyone else. Because if you can get players like that and then come back and draft players like we did early it moves the needle overall. I'm all about feeling needs but if you're going to pass on better players(that we could actually use I'm not saying draft a quarterback every year or draft a receiver every year) to do so then we're thinking too small. 

I do want to end by saying there are ways that this could still be a bad draft. Example if Brock Bowers ends up being like Darren McFadden and gets hurt every year that could be a problem. JPJ though I can't see that not working out. That's the point about taking best player available. In theory if you keep drafting players on the first and second days the end up hitting 80% of the time you're going to always have a good football team. 

 

Edited April 28 by Jeremy408

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[101Raider]

16 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

I might be dense, but I don’t really see what he’s referring to. Unless it’s the obvious, teams that drafted QBs at the top spent more capital on offense?

[Darbsk]

19 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

His legs look like they’re going 100mph 😁

[MrOaktown_56]

 

An offseason in an NFL weight program and I think Michael Mayer will thrive as an inline tight end. The "he doesn't block very well" stuff is bull**** imho 

[RaidersAreOne]

2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

An offseason in an NFL weight program and I think Michael Mayer will thrive as an inline tight end. The "he doesn't block very well" stuff is bull**** imho 

The Oakland version of Mack would never let a TE man handle him.

[Darbsk]

38 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

An offseason in an NFL weight program and I think Michael Mayer will thrive as an inline tight end. The "he doesn't block very well" stuff is bull**** imho 

Anyone who says he doesn’t block very well simply hasn’t been watching him play. As a rookie he was one of the best blocking TEs in the league imho (though like any rookie he did whiff now and again) and he’s only going to get better as he has the attitude. Excited about Mayer and Bowers!

[raidr4life]

I think some people here are underestimating Minshew ability to get the ball to his playmakers, he literally got Michael Pittman paid with 109 catches, the 2nd WR had 68 catches and he's not really that good. He can make plays with his legs which is a plus buying time for guys to be wide open on blown coverages, and a threat to run it in the endzone. 

[Jeremy408]

4 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

I think some people here are underestimating Minshew ability to get the ball to his playmakers, he literally got Michael Pittman paid with 109 catches, the 2nd WR had 68 catches and he's not really that good. He can make plays with his legs which is a plus buying time for guys to be wide open on blown coverages, and a threat to run it in the endzone. 

Yeah I don't really have a problem with Minshew starting with the way the ball offense is built. I just don't like the fact that he doesn't have all the talent show the balls not gonna be going down the field as much. But yeah he can escape pressure

[Styrian Raider]

16 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

You can't. That is why you look at historical data. And in the meantime, you don't pretend that someone with a negative opinion based on said data is merely mindlessly whining. 

We literally just went through these exact same issues and arguments with McDaniels and Zeigler where people stuck their sword firmly in the hill of what they "felt" "would" happen, jumping the bones of anyone who dare point out trends, issues, shortcomings, etc. 

The minute you don't 100% agree lock, stock, and barrel with whatever the copiate crowd thinks or feels, you're accused of ranting, raving, being a Negative Nancy, fake fan, etc. 

I've said before countless times now, if Getsy and Telesco  prove me wrong, great. That's their job and they can succeed or fail. Until then, they're the backup OC we hired when Kliff left us at the altar and the GM we virtually all laughed at when we had a historical day against the Chargers and he was fired after years of underachieving. 

If someone wants to buy into them hook, line, and sinker- be my guest. In the meantime, don't castigate people who are skeptical. With regard to our entire setup- from Telesco's past to Getsy's past to retaining AP to rolling with a few key spots filled by guys who are probably beter backup types than starters, there's way more reason to be skeptical than the feelings evoked for these guys just because they now collect a check from Mark Davis.

 

Yes you can't - so then why do you want the proof from others, when you know it's impossible to prove that?
Looking at historical data, gives you an indication, like I said - but it also don't gives you the proof that the outcome will be the same. It's not science.
Looking solely on historical data, would've told everyon before last year's draft, that CJ Stroud would be a bust, because historically QBs from OSU are busting.

And this forum is not North Korea - there is no unity of opinion. It's the way, some people express their opinion that rubs some people the wrong way. And further not to eat the crow if they're wrong.

The Bowers pick wasn't a need but it is understandable that you take the opportunity when you get it. Personally I'm waiting to see the outcome of the field regarding him.
But unlike you, I didn't want to burn the whole thing down and 'cause we're drafting "fantasy football". And what happened on Day 2? They addressed needs.

 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

17 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Anyone who says he doesn’t block very well simply hasn’t been watching him play. As a rookie he was one of the best blocking TEs in the league imho (though like any rookie he did whiff now and again) and he’s only going to get better as he has the attitude. Excited about Mayer and Bowers!

Meh he started off rough lol then got better as the season progressed in terms of blocking 

[RaidersAreOne]

17 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh he started off rough lol then got better as the season progressed in terms of blocking 

Which is expected for a rookie TE.

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh he started off rough lol then got better as the season progressed in terms of blocking 

Yeh, he did have a few whiffs early but he was never Waller bad 😁 

Our two TEs are like Thunder and Lightning, really excited to see both start this season. Gotta be careful not to get too caught up in the hype so I guess we'll find out how good our OC is when he's trying to get everyone involved as hopefully Tre Tucker will take a step too plus that new youngster we drafted as a 3rd down back.

You're an Oline guy aren't you, what do you think of Munford and his chances of being a starting RT man?

[Bitty 2.0]

23 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

My take on it is simple. If we had drafted Terrion Arnold at 13 over brock bowers everyone would be happy because we filled the need at corner.

But when it comes down to it who is a better player Terrion arnold(arguably the best corner in the draft but an average athlete who ran a 4.5) or brock bowers(top three player in the draft overall and widely considered the best TE Prospect in years & potential generational talent). The thing with that is when you take Terrion Arnold in that scenario you have to account for the fact that

1. He might not even be the best corner in this draft. I'm not even sure if he's the best player on his team but that's a different story. Mitchell was taken ahead of him at 22. Are two things that stand out about that: he wasn't picked first and corners weren't picked until the 20s which shows you what most people thought about the cornerback class this year. 

2. Corner is much more likely to come out with top talent every year then tight end. Are you may be thinking to yourself "why does that actually matter if we don't need a tight end?". It matters because if in two years he's one of the three best tight end in football and we have one of the best skill position groups in the NFL that's a lot better than filling a one year need. It's why the best player available approach matters so much because I need to change from year to year. For example, we didn't get a quarterback. Let's say that Aiden O'Connell and .minshew struggle to get DeVonta the ball like he wants to and say DeVonta wants to get traded. Now we can say that we have all fence of talent elsewhere and that if we lost Devante we could still say that we will be able to move the ball and the passing game for whoever rookie quarterback we will bring in in the future without having to start over. What if next year is a better quarterback class than this year and that causes talent to fall and we're able to do with the ravens did this year and get another one of the arguably best corners in the draft lower in the first round. Then it doesn't really matter that we took Bowers. thats kind of the point call BPA. Your team continues to get better regardless of need

Another important thing to note is that guard was actually a bigger need than tackle but we didn't talk about that much because of the fact that

1. Guards are easy to find

2. And this is an amazing tackle draft

But what we were able to do in the second round was get a player that I actually thought would be the best player available by the time we picked if all the quarterbacks were gone(because I thought Bowers was going to go either fifth to the chargers 9th to the bears or 11th to the Jets. Hell I might've done that if I was the Falcons because Kirk cousins loves TEs & even the Titans couldve taken him) in JPJ. For us to get that guy in the second round who I thought him and Joe all were the two best lineman in the entire draft if position was equal. Sure you could've drafted Kingsley or Rosengarten I'm not sure that they would go on to be an all pro level player in the way I'm absolutely sure that JPJ would. That's why best player available makes the most sense. That allows you to improve your football team overall by just getting good players so that even if you're deficient at some positions you are great at others rather than just being average at almost everything. It's why I was a big fan of spending a lot of money to get Wilkins and not really signing anyone else. Because if you can get players like that and then come back and draft players like we did early it moves the needle overall. I'm all about feeling needs but if you're going to pass on better players(that we could actually use I'm not saying draft a quarterback every year or draft a receiver every year) to do so then we're thinking too small. 

I do want to end by saying there are ways that this could still be a bad draft. Example if Brock Bowers ends up being like Darren McFadden and gets hurt every year that could be a problem. JPJ though I can't see that not working out. That's the point about taking best player available. In theory if you keep drafting players on the first and second days the end up hitting 80% of the time you're going to always have a good football team. 

 

Plus Mayer has trade value.

[ronjon1990]

9 hours ago, Styrian Raider said:

Yes you can't - so then why do you want the proof from others, when you know it's impossible to prove that?
Looking at historical data, gives you an indication, like I said - but it also don't gives you the proof that the outcome will be the same. It's not science.
 

I make a statement based on historical data. 

"YOU'RE WRONG!"

Again, it's as easy as this:

Getsy can prove me wrong. It's literally his job to. 

Until then, he hasn't. So for anyone to jump bones is premature and based on zilch. If you're going to defend the decision, you're more than welcome to.

But realize that deciding to defend the decision does not, by default, make it "right" or insulate the decision from criticism. But folks around here don't take kindly to criticizing once someone is employed by the Raiders.