First impressions: Best and worst picks thus far?

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

      Forgive these hot takes:

The best 17 players went in the top 17, 16 of them to an appropriate team.
As the first round entered its seventh inning GMs started to stretch.
Washington's choice of Daniels over Maye was clearcut, as was Maye to N.E.
The Chargers hope to revive their N-S ground game.
Atlanta has zero confidence in Kirk Cousins staying healthy.
The rich got richer.  How did Philly and Detroit score the top 2 CBs?
Tennessee should have traded down.
Bo Nix ended up where he belonged.
"Good teams trade up, bad teams trade down" was vindicated.  Again.
Minny may have pulled off what Houston did last year...and more cheaply.
Hosed out of a QB by Atlanta, the Raiders recovered brilliantly.
Getting Legette makes me wonder if the drugs have worn off in Carolina.
We knew there'd be no early trades and that offence would dominate but...Wow!

Unfortunately Philly and Detroit didn’t get the 2 best corners because the best went to the ‘vens 👀

[Dr A W Niloc]

2 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Unfortunately Philly and Detroit didn’t get the 2 best corners because the best went to the ‘vens 👀

I agree, though it may be that the best CB, Cooper DeJean, is still on the board!

Philly and Detroit did get the top 2 CBs in the draft order, which is astonishing.  Were I a Lions fan I'd have been happy to have gotten the fifth!

We all know Howie Roseman is the best GM in the NFL.  Is he the luckiest, too?

[Daniel]

The more I think about the Falcons drafting Penix, the worse it is.

Like, may as well already lock the Falcons into the 32nd spot on goldfish's rankings.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

14 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Unfortunately Philly and Detroit didn’t get the 2 best corners because the best went to the ‘vens 👀

He might end up being the best CB and I do like Wiggins, but I definitely preferred Quinyon and Terrion. I will say he is in the best spot to come in and succeed with the player he has around him. 

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

7 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Contract situation was different and Rodgers had openly flirted with retirement a la Favre.  Also, the age of the prospects is massively different, if Penix sits for 3 years, he won't play til he is 27.  And where they were drafted is a big difference.

I don't see the age argument as a huge deal.  Sure, it isn't optimal.  It would be preferable to get a guy who is 21 and put him on the bench for a couple of years, but let's say Penix is 27 when he becomes the starter in two years.  If he comes out as a star at that time and they get a decade of that level of play out of him, isn't it still a great thing?  I'd sure take it.

[Dr LBC]

7 hours ago, Texansfan713 said:

7. Titans- OL JC Latham:  I said the mock it would be funny if the Chargers took Alt ahead of the Titans since he was mocked them them so many times throughout the draft proccess and low and behold it actually happened.  Titans panicked and reached for Latham.  I think he will bust as a tackle but be really good as a guard.  You dont take guards in the top 10 of the draft. 

Bill Belichick disagrees.  But then, BB wasn't exactly known for his stellar drafting prowess.

[Ray Reed]

14 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

He might end up being the best CB and I do like Wiggins, but I definitely preferred Quinyon and Terrion. I will say he is in the best spot to come in and succeed with the player he has around him. 

Yeah i think his ceiling is really high. Has to put on some weight though 

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

1. Jordan Love was 21 when he was drafted, and Aaron Rodgers was an established legend on the team. Also keep in mind that the Jordan Love pick was also heavily scrutinized at the time. 
2. Jordan Love was not regarded as pro ready, he was regarded as developmental. Michael Penix is viewed as Pro-Ready and is already 24 years old in a couple of weeks.
3. Sitting Penix for 2-3 years means he's not starting until 27 and wasting much of the rookie contract that generally teams need to maximize to compete. It also means that you're not investing HIGH first-round draft capital to help your team win now with the QB you just invested $100M into...

So no, it doesn't make sense and it's not comparable whatsoever to the Love/Rodgers or Jackson/Flacco situation. 

EDIT: Also, Jordan Love was drafted 1/26 and Mahomes was 1/10 BUT only sat for a year behind Alex Smith (not viewed as any sort of long-term QB and the Chiefs didn't invest $100M into him).

Jordan love sat for THREE years though, and he still isn't a sure thing.  Green Bay fans were talking half way through the season about how he was making such great "progress."  How long does he need to go with the progress?  He is going into his fifth year in the league next year.

Compare that to Penix, who has played six years in college (because of Covid).  He should come in far closer to being a finished product than Jordan Love was.  He isn't going to need to ride the pine for three years of his rookie contract.  He will probably sit next year, and half of the following year, but I sure don't see them resigning Kirk to another big contract.  

Would it be nice if Penix was a couple years younger?  Sure, but it's not like they won't get a lot of good years out of him.  They could have looked at a younger prospect if they are going to sit him for a couple of years, but they probably really liked Penix and he was "their guy."  I can understand that.

Go with Kirk for a couple of years.  Win a bunch of regular season games.  Even that is something the Falcons fans have been able to enjoy for a while.  Then, in a couple of years, Penix can come in and they will actually have a shot at some regular season AND post season success.  It's worth the investment in my eyes.

[Mox]

11 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

Jordan love sat for THREE years though, and he still isn't a sure thing.  Green Bay fans were talking half way through the season about how he was making such great "progress."  How long does he need to go with the progress?  He is going into his fifth year in the league next year.

Compare that to Penix, who has played six years in college (because of Covid).  He should come in far closer to being a finished product than Jordan Love was.  He isn't going to need to ride the pine for three years of his rookie contract.  He will probably sit next year, and half of the following year, but I sure don't see them resigning Kirk to another big contract.  

Would it be nice if Penix was a couple years younger?  Sure, but it's not like they won't get a lot of good years out of him.  They could have looked at a younger prospect if they are going to sit him for a couple of years, but they probably really liked Penix and he was "their guy."  I can understand that.

Go with Kirk for a couple of years.  Win a bunch of regular season games.  Even that is something the Falcons fans have been able to enjoy for a while.  Then, in a couple of years, Penix can come in and they will actually have a shot at some regular season AND post season success.  It's worth the investment in my eyes.

Love was a high risk/high reward pick in the mid 20's. He needed to sit. After sitting for 3 years behind a top 5 QB ever, he was playing MVP ball by the end of last season, at the age Penix is now.

Penix doesn't need to sit, but he will anyway, he has nowhere near the ceiling, and has the injury history. All the while being taken #8 by a team who tampered to get $100 mil QB on the book...a month ago.

These situations are not the same.

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

1 minute ago, Mox said:

Love was a high risk/high reward pick in the mid 20's. He needed to sit. After sitting for 3 years behind a top 5 QB ever, he was playing MVP ball by the end of last season, at the age Penix is now.

Penix doesn't need to sit, but he will anyway, he has nowhere near the ceiling, and has the injury history. All the while being taken #8 by a team who tampered to get $100 mil QB on the book...a month ago.

These situations are not the same.

Really?  I must have missed that.  He had a couple of good games.  I know Packer fans desperately want to believe he will be a seamless transition from Aaron Rodgers, but I'd say he has a long way to go before anyone can make that proclamation.  A year or two from now, he could just as easily be the fourth best QB in the NFC North.  Maybe I'll end up being wrong.  We'll see.

[Mox]

5 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

Really?  I must have missed that.  He had a couple of good games.  I know Packer fans desperately want to believe he will be a seamless transition from Aaron Rodgers, but I'd say he has a long way to go before anyone can make that proclamation.  A year or two from now, he could just as easily be the fourth best QB in the NFC North.  Maybe I'll end up being wrong.  We'll see.

You did miss it, but luckily, I'll help you out.

Last 8 games:

196/279 (70.1%) 2,150 yards (7.71 YPA) 18 TDs 1 Int 112.7 rating

Not including his two postseason games where his passer rating was a hair under 110.

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

1 minute ago, Mox said:

You did miss it, but luckily, I'll help you out.

Last 8 games:

196/279 (70.1%) 2,150 yards (7.71 YPA) 18 TDs 1 Int 112.7 rating

Not including his two postseason games where his passer rating was a hair under 110.

LIke I said, he had a couple of nice games in the playoffs.  We'll see how he looks next year.  Maybe he will be great.  I'm not saying he is going to be a bust.  I'm just saying I think people are getting ahead of themselves on the guy.  We have seen a lot of players have a string of decent games and then regress.  We'll just have to see how he does next season.  Good luck to the young man.

[Mox]

Just now, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

LIke I said, he had a couple of nice games in the playoffs.  We'll see how he looks next year.  Maybe he will be great.  I'm not saying he is going to be a bust.  I'm just saying I think people are getting ahead of themselves on the guy.  We have seen a lot of players have a string of decent games and then regress.  We'll just have to see how he does next season.  Good luck to the young man.

A 10-game stretch of elite play, half of which were against playoff teams, isn't "a couple nice games". But then again you don't see the Penix move as bad, so we have very different takes on football.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

54 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

Jordan love sat for THREE years though, and he still isn't a sure thing.  Green Bay fans were talking half way through the season about how he was making such great "progress."  How long does he need to go with the progress?  He is going into his fifth year in the league next year.

ok.

54 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

Compare that to Penix, who has played six years in college (because of Covid).  He should come in far closer to being a finished product than Jordan Love was.  He isn't going to need to ride the pine for three years of his rookie contract.  He will probably sit next year, and half of the following year, but I sure don't see them resigning Kirk to another big contract.  

Okay so they're going to still give Kirk Cousins $100M and draft a rookie QB to sit for 2 years rather than signing a guy who can help them win now with Kirk on the roster? And that makes sense to you?

54 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

Would it be nice if Penix was a couple years younger?  Sure, but it's not like they won't get a lot of good years out of him.  They could have looked at a younger prospect if they are going to sit him for a couple of years, but they probably really liked Penix and he was "their guy."  I can understand that.

If Penix is "their guy" what does that make Kirk Cousins? Because you can't have 2 "guys" on your team. If you're going in on Kirk, build around him. If Penix is your guy, why did you spend $100M on Kirk? Again, it doesn't make sense.

54 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said:

Go with Kirk for a couple of years.  Win a bunch of regular season games.  Even that is something the Falcons fans have been able to enjoy for a while.  Then, in a couple of years, Penix can come in and they will actually have a shot at some regular season AND post season success.  It's worth the investment in my eyes.

Yeah I guess if your ultimate goal as a franchise is to win regular season games then this move does in fact make sense because you did nothing to help win a Superbowl now and also nothing to help with a Super Bowl in 3+ years when Penix can finally start and you've wasted 75% or more of that rookie contract.

[Trojan]

The Kirk Cousins thing makes sense if the Falcons at picking 8th and only like basically Caleb Williams and Michael Penix. If Penix makes it to them they blow cap space, if not they move forward with Kirk as the plan. If they rated Penix as BPA at 8 I bet they had him even more ridiculously high. They spent extra cash to not have Desmond Ridder + journeyman (or something similar) return. Trade Kirk to the Raiders or something who have pieces but have Minshew, I dunno if something like that has ever happened. Surely Kirk for a day 2 or 3 pick to the Raiders with negotiations on how much money which team eats has happened after day 1 of the draft if such a move might exist. Raiders have like 22mil in space  and Cousins has a 25mil hit this year. Surely such a thing is possible, even with a no trade clause, if Kirk is wanting to not have a top 10 pick waiting right behind him.