Training Camp Thread

[AnAngryAmerican]

All right so the long offseason doldrums are nearing an end with training camp starting soon. I finally feel good about the direction this team is heading (of course, I said the same the summer of the Hackett/Russ pairing, but I digress) because I really believe there is a plan for the short, medium and long terms. Sean has assembled what looks like a good staff and there is a lot of youth on the team. 

Of what aspects of the roster are you guys most intrigued for camp? 

For me, there’s three position battles on which I will be focused. 

1. The QB battle. This is obvious and will dominate the media coverage of camp. I’m on record as saying I want Nix to start week 1, others are fine letting him sit for a while. 

2. Who wins the starting OC job? Cush had his best year last season and then left for Carolina (ouch) so we have the three-way competition between Forsyth, Mustipher and Wattenberg. 

3. The RB room. We have a lot of bodies here, which three ultimately make the team? Javonte a season removed from the injury is in a make-or-break season, McLaughlin flashed at times last year but is a change of pace guy, Perine is a vet and Sean loves his vets, but two young guys in Estime, who we drafted, and Watson, to whom we signed a very large (for an UDFA) contact, obviously they like him a lot. 

So have it guys, the season is (finally) not far away!

[BullsandBroncos]

15 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

All right so the long offseason doldrums are nearing an end with training camp starting soon. I finally feel good about the direction this team is heading (of course, I said the same the summer of the Hackett/Russ pairing, but I digress) because I really believe there is a plan for the short, medium and long terms. Sean has assembled what looks like a good staff and there is a lot of youth on the team. 

Of what aspects of the roster are you guys most intrigued for camp? 

For me, there’s three position battles on which I will be focused. 

1. The QB battle. This is obvious and will dominate the media coverage of camp. I’m on record as saying I want Nix to start week 1, others are fine letting him sit for a while. 

2. Who wins the starting OC job? Cush had his best year last season and then left for Carolina (ouch) so we have the three-way competition between Forsyth, Mustipher and Wattenberg. 

3. The RB room. We have a lot of bodies here, which three ultimately make the team? Javonte a season removed from the injury is in a make-or-break season, McLaughlin flashed at times last year but is a change of pace guy, Perine is a vet and Sean loves his vets, but two young guys in Estime, who we drafted, and Watson, to whom we signed a very large (for an UDFA) contact, obviously they like him a lot. 

So have it guys, the season is (finally) not far away!

1: I think just because of formalities, it starts as Stidham QB1, Wilson QB2, Nix QB3. After a week or 2, Nix moves up to QB2. The rest just depends on Payton's leash length on Stidham. It's admittedly hard to gauge because this is Payton's first high profile rookie QB.

 

2: Going off of what AKRNA said around the time of the draft, I think the Center job will come down to Forsythe and Wattenburg. Most I know of them is Forsythe is a superior run-blocker and played at least a season with Nix in College (doubt this means that much but it's fun to think about.) but alas I think Forsythe wins the job. Not going out on a huge limb here, but that's what I see happening.

 

3: I think we are all hoping that since Javonte will be another year removed from his injury that he will have gained back some of the quickness, burse, and speed he showed earlier in his career but that remains to be seen. Estime isn't a burner either. Seems to be an even slower version of Javonte but we will see. Mclaughlin offers the most big play ability. I see a most likely scenario where none of them see more than 140 touches but they all see over 100. Especially if Nix plays earlier in the season. But also, given Nix's amount of experience, I can see Payton making him throw the ball more than most rookie QBs on a per game basis.

[AKRNA]

Half a century ago we were deep into TC by this time, and had been for a while. Football talk was a daily occurrence and on everybody's mind.

Now I feel like I'm 10 years old on a family trip listening to my sisters howling "Are we there yet?"

Are we there yet?

 

[broncos67]

If Nix is even remotely close to Stidham performance-wise, he's winning the QB battle. Maybe it's best that he waits, but Payton isn't patient, and Stidham frankly isn't that good. Wilson may not even make the team.

I think Javonte stands a chance at getting cut, but it's unlikely. Perine might, who knows. Though he's probably the best 3rd down back on a team that may rely on the short passing game. McLaughlin is a lock to make it. I think if Estime shows out, Javonte is gone. If not, Estime might be gone. Watson could snag a spot or be PS fodder.

I'm also curious as to how CB2 shakes out. Obviously Surtain and McMillian are 2 of the Top 3 guys right now. Is Riley Moss that guy? Is it Levi Wallace? Mathis? Should be somewhat fascinating. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

On 7/15/2024 at 8:07 AM, broncos67 said:

If Nix is even remotely close to Stidham performance-wise, he's winning the QB battle. Maybe it's best that he waits, but Payton isn't patient, and Stidham frankly isn't that good. Wilson may not even make the team.

I think Javonte stands a chance at getting cut, but it's unlikely. Perine might, who knows. Though he's probably the best 3rd down back on a team that may rely on the short passing game. McLaughlin is a lock to make it. I think if Estime shows out, Javonte is gone. If not, Estime might be gone. Watson could snag a spot or be PS fodder.

I'm also curious as to how CB2 shakes out. Obviously Surtain and McMillian are 2 of the Top 3 guys right now. Is Riley Moss that guy? Is it Levi Wallace? Mathis? Should be somewhat fascinating. 

I don't think they would cut bait on a rookie on whom they spent a 5th round pick. I know it's a 5th round pick but RB is so devalued that a 5th round RB is akin to, say, a 3rd round CB or WR, you don't cut those guys before giving them a season on the active roster. I think it's more likely Javonte or Pereine end up the odd man out. 

Edited July 16 by AnAngryAmerican

[jsthomp2007]

On 7/13/2024 at 2:07 AM, AKRNA said:

Half a century ago we were deep into TC by this time, and had been for a while. Football talk was a daily occurrence and on everybody's mind.

Now I feel like I'm 10 years old on a family trip listening to my sisters howling "Are we there yet?"

Are we there yet?

 

Greeley is a long way away from where you are at. 

[broncos67]

On 7/15/2024 at 11:22 AM, AnAngryAmerican said:

I don't think they would cut bait on a rookie on whom they spent a 5th round pick. I know it's a 5th round pick but RB is so devalued that a 5th round RB is akin to, say, a 3rd round CB or WR, you don't cut those guys before giving them a season on the active roster. I think it's more likely Javonte or Pereine end up the odd man out. 

Nothing would shock me. Unlikely? Sure. But on an offense that needs talent, you have to find ways to get the best guys on the team.

[broncofan48]

I see we resigned Meinerz to a contract extension.  Glad to have that wrapped up:

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/broncos-guard-quinn-meinerz-agree-to-four-year-80-million-extension

[broncosfan_101]

30 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

I see we resigned Meinerz to a contract extension.  Glad to have that wrapped up:

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/broncos-guard-quinn-meinerz-agree-to-four-year-80-million-extension

Only 6th in guaranteed money among NFL OG’s?? Steal.

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

I see we resigned Meinerz to a contract extension.  Glad to have that wrapped up:

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/broncos-guard-quinn-meinerz-agree-to-four-year-80-million-extension

Now that my friend is the best news I've heard this offseason. 

You have to love Seans  "old school" commitment to the trenches. It's the main reason why I have a hard time predicting our season. We haven't done much at the skill spots but our DL and OL could both be quite good. Our DL has been significantly improved personnel wise and we've brought in a great DL coach.

If we get a good starting center out of the mix we'll be looking good. The saying "games are won or lost in the trenches" is just as valid today as it was half a century ago.

[jsthomp2007]

14 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

I see we resigned Meinerz to a contract extension.  Glad to have that wrapped up:

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/broncos-guard-quinn-meinerz-agree-to-four-year-80-million-extension

Good job.  Way to get that off your plate. 

[broncosfan_101]

20 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Now that my friend is the best news I've heard this offseason. 

You have to love Seans  "old school" commitment to the trenches. It's the main reason why I have a hard time predicting our season. We haven't done much at the skill spots but our DL and OL could both be quite good. Our DL has been significantly improved personnel wise and we've brought in a great DL coach.

If we get a good starting center out of the mix we'll be looking good. The saying "games are won or lost in the trenches" is just as valid today as it was half a century ago.

I think there’s a definite cap on how good the OL can be. A really good unit would have 1-2 guys who are in the range of ‘average NFL starter’. We have 3 positions where we’d be thrilled to get play of that caliber. I’d still bet on only Meinerz being a part of the next really good Broncos o-line, if we’re not counting whoever wins the centre job this summer. 

Edited July 18 by broncosfan_101

[lomaxgrUK]

Like Ben, I think CB2 is a key battle. We've seen the destruction a poor CB2 can cause many, many times here in Denver, irrespective of how good your CB1 is.

I feel childish for saying it, but this is the beauty of a 1st round QB; it gives us a reason to be glued to training camp everyday. 

We've just got to pray all of the great stuff we heard on Nix in minicamps sticks for TC.

Great news on Quinn, too. He's been so good since the moment he stepped on the field. Payton has spoken glowingly about him which is very rare.

[Broncofan]

Re: RB, this is where we find out how committed the staff is to present-year, vs. future years.   I think it's clear Javonte's not in the long-term plans, but it would still be surprising to see him get cut over Perine.   Then again, Perine's salary cap savings are 3M with a cut, vs. Javonte saving almost 1.9M if he goes.   So for 1.1M, it's really going to be about whether Javonte's potential future value with the team outweighs Perine's present value.   

Sucks for Javonte, it must be pretty clear at OTA's and TC that he hasn't regained that burst post-ACL.   18 months is when you usually see full explosion return post-ACL but his injury was far more complex (even more than the terrible triad), so it's very possible he isn't the same explosive self.  And given his play style, that's a major problem if he's not the same athletically.     Such an unfortunate injury, he was headed for great things before.  

Payton's willingness to go with 2 guys to share the load, even having 3, probably also plays out.  I don't think Jaleel is ever going to be a 15+ carry guy, more like a 8-10 carry guy who you also design 5-6 targets for.   But his versatility and his ability to make guys miss in space, he's safe, and probably the one guy whose role is guaranteed as part of the time-share.   Estime is obviously the X factor, and I don't see him getting cut - as AAA mentioned, they thought highly enough of him to draft him R5 (which is decent capital for a RB).   He's probably headed to the Mark Ingram role, +/- goal line work (tough to know how much you trust a rookie, GL work is definitely a sign of big trust, so can't put him there yet). 

Obviously, if someone gets hurt before Week 1, it may make the discussion totally moot.   The fact it seems like it's Javonte vs. Perine for the 3rd spot also shows how much being a non-ST playing RB hurts you if you're not "the guy".  Perine's ability to play ST's and be reliable on 3rd downs (and fill in a top 2 spot with injury) is probably a factor here. 

When I thought Perine's cut would save 3M+, I figured he was the goner.  Now that it's barely over 1.1M saved, it's really going to show how much DEN thinks of Williams' future - if he's really disposable enough they're letting him walk after 2024, then they may side with the aging but more reliable 3rd down guy.  It's wild, if someone told you it would be Williams vs. Perine as the last decision this time 2 years ago, you'd have said they were delusional.  

Edited July 24 by Broncofan

[grizmo78]

Unless Javonte has somehow regained all of his explosion, he's unfortunately not the same player we loved. His biggest attributes were his contact balance and ability to break tackles but his limiting factor was always his average athleticism. After that devastating knee injuries, he's unfortunately a below average athlete now and so those strengths he once had don't play up the way they used to. We've debated about "threshold talent" for the QB position but I think that controversial term is applicable here too. Javonte just doesn't have that threshold athleticism anymore to be a net positive at the RB position. Like @Broncofan said, he's also not a ST contributor and he's not a great 3rd down back so you're left with someone who can only contribute to the team on 1st and 2nd downs. As sad as I am to say it, I'll be surprised if he's on the team this year especially if Audric Estime has a healthy preseason.