2018 NFL Draft Thread: Jets clinch 6th overall pick

[Bobby816]

Just now, Bianconero said:

So you've never actually seen Moncrief play?

High powered Colts offense in which he again, had a fluke TD % on very low reception total vs Enunwa, who I'm not saying I love, but played with Ryan Fitzpatrick

Mmmk

Like I said he’s a #2 with #1 potential, so I’m not calling him a star. But the fact is he cane to us he’d probably be our best WR. That shows how overrated I think some view our WR group is anything.

[Dr.O]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

So Enunwa is a #1 But Moncrief is a #3? I just gave stats the prove that Moncrief is leaps and bounds better than Enunwa. 

Stats don't mean ish. Plaxico Buress had a 8 or 10 TD year with us and he was still trash. No Moncrief isn't he disappears for large stretches isn't half the blocker Enunwa is and is always dealing with nagging injuries. No offense bobby but your underrating our weapons and overrating others. Why can't we just develop our own weapons for once? We have 2 promising young WRs in Enunwa and Anderson that have both consistently gotten better each year they have played. 

[Bobby816]

Just now, Dr.O said:

Stats don't mean ish. Plaxico Buress had a 8 or 10 TD year with us and he was still trash. No Moncrief isn't he disappears for large stretches isn't half the blocker Enunwa is and is always dealing with nagging injuries. No offense bobby but your underrating our weapons and overrating others. Why can't we just develop our own weapons for once? We have 2 promising young WRs in Enunwa and Anderson that have both consistently gotten better each year they have played. 

Promising? 1 just had a major neck surgery and the other just got arrested and was cursing at a police officer and it was his 2nd arrest in 2 seasons. No offense but you need a reality check. You’re highly overrating our WRs. I’m not calling Moncrief a star. But has he had a huge neck surgery? Has he been arrested twice the last 2 years?

[Bianconero]

I see what you're saying but Moncrief isn't an answer

You're just throwing arbitrary terms out like "he's a #2 with #1 potential" when in reality, that is off-base and just not true

As a watcher of Moncrief on the field and not his stat-line, I can confidently tell you that he is a fringe roster player

[Dr.O]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

Promising? 1 just had a major neck surgery and the other just got arrested and was cursing at a police officer and it was his 2nd arrest in 2 seasons. No offense but you need a reality check. You’re highly overrating our WRs. I’m not calling Moncrief a star. But has he had a huge neck surgery? Has he been arrested twice the last 2 years?

Promising as both had raised there level of play on the field each year they've been in the league. We aren't here to talk about the off field stuff. Stricktly on it. Cool I'll give you the Enunwa he fixed a bulging disk in his neck, should come back. No offense but Moncrief is trash and you think he's good cause he has 18 TDs in his career? Have you looked at the rest of his stats he's played a major role on a pass heavy team and has only broken 450 yards on the season once and has a combined 56 catches for 690 yards the past 2 years. Atleast Enunwa and Anderson have gotten better over the years.Since Moncriefs 2nd year he's regressed hard.

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

Promising as both had raised there level of play on the field each year they've been in the league. We aren't here to talk about the off field stuff. Stricktly on it. Cool I'll give you the Enunwa he fixed a bulging disk in his neck, should come back. No offense but Moncrief is trash and you think he's good cause he has 18 TDs in his career? Have you looked at the rest of his stats he's played a major role on a pass heavy team and has only broken 450 yards on the season once and has a combined 56 catches for 690 yards the past 2 years. Atleast Enunwa and Anderson have gotten better over the years.Since Moncriefs 2nd year he's regressed hard.

I see a very small window of promise with a guy with a major neck surgery and another that’s been arrested twice already. You can talk about on the field all you want. But Enunwa just missed a whole year bc of surgery so how is his on the Field? And Anderson will get suspended more than likely, so hows his on the field? You can’t talk about the on the field when they’re not maybe even going to be on it. And I haven’t said Moncrief once is great. I’m just pointing out that he’s better than what we have. That’s more knock on how bad or overrated our WR group actually is.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I need to chime in on Moncrief. I’ll start by saying I don’t think he’s a star #1 WR. I think he’s a very good #2 with borderline potential to be a #1. We can’t look at his season this year. Young QB brought in last minute who has barely played, no time to work on timing, awful offense as a whole etc. 

Let’s look at his 2 previous years. He got injured last season. He only played half a season and had 7 TDs. That’s a ton of production in half a season. Let’s than look to the season before. He had a better year than that if Enunwa had that everyone on here praises him for (which I think was overrated). He caught for only like 75yds less than Enunwa but had 3 more TDs. I’d say he out produced Enunwa. I use Enunwa as an example for several reasons. They’re the same age, similar bodies and I’ve seen people on here praise him for years and I find it head scratching to see people criticizing a guy who has out performed him by a huge margin pretty much. 

Moncrief: 18 TDs

Enunwa: 4 TDs

Im all for bringing Moncrief in.

He's played with Andrew Luck his entire career basically and has 1 productive season.  Luck threw for almost 5K yards and 40 TD's in Moncrief's only good year.  Not saying Enuwa will ever be a stud WR but he is without question better than Moncrief and it's not even close.  Enunwa is still developing into a WR and may have truly broken out this year if he played.  WR's typically take 2-3 years to really develop and Enunwa was going into year 3 after a better 2nd season then Moncrief has had in 4 seasons.   I'm also not overpaying to bring in a mediocre WR like Moncrief.  If you are worried about Anderson or Enunwa long term and want to go for a WR I get it but at least go get a good one like Landry or a consistent guy you can count on like Matthews/Richardson.

Enunwa was the only bright spot in an otherwise disaster of a 2016 when the team around him was crumbling he was single handily carrying them at times.  Moncrief's team needed him this year when Luck went down and Dorsett was traded to step up and he was a no show.  You want to bring him in for cheap go for it but I'm not paying a guy that doesn't show up big money.  Go ahead and cling to TD numbers but Moncrief's only good year just so happened when his QB had an MVP type season and throwing 40 TD's.  It takes Jets QB's 2-3 season to throw 40 TD's.  FItz threw FYI for 2,700 yards and 12 TD's.  Luck was at 4,700 and 40.  Enunwa may have had 1,200 yards and 10 TD's in that offense.

The whole #1 WR and #2 WR narrative that constantly get thrown around is so dumb to begin with.  You don't need a #1 WR to win.  Get three good WR's who can run crisp routes and you can rely on to catch the ball.  They don't have to be AJ Green's or Larry Fitz special athlete types.  If Anderson was mentally stable and Enunwa is 100% and Kearse comes back or you added a consistent WR like Matthews to the slot those three are plenty good enough to win with and none would be considered #1 WR's.  

Anderson's attitude and Enunwa's injury could change things but if they are both playing we are fine at WR.  

You don't even have to look that far to see what Moncrief is, he's basically Jermaine Kearse a guy we all would love to upgrade 

[Bianconero]

^ Agreed

The only teams in this year's playoffs with "#1 WRs" were the Falcons and Steelers, who both didn't win a game 

[Bobby816]

You guys are missing my whole point. I see you guys all bashing Moncrief. But act like our WR situation is ok or even good. Enunwa might never play football again. And Anderson literally just got arrested again last week. To think Enunwa will pick up right where he left off is incredibly optimistic. And to think this will be Anderson’s last issue is probably just as optimistic.

[Sapo28]

1 minute ago, Bianconero said:

^ Agreed

The only teams in this year's playoffs with "#1 WRs" were the Falcons and Steelers, who both didn't win a game 

I do  think you could argue Michael Thomas of the Saints as a "#1WR."  But  I agree that solid depth at WR has been the way to win in this time of shutdown/cover corners.

The patriots would be a much scarier team with a healthy Edleman to accompany Cooks/Hogan/Amendola, I'd take that group over Julio/Sanu/Gabriel any day.

[Rockice_8]

1 minute ago, Bianconero said:

^ Agreed

The only teams in this year's playoffs with "#1 WRs" were the Falcons and Steelers, who both didn't win a game 

What makes a #1 WR is my question?  6'3" plus with blazing speed?  Elite hands?  Has a 40" vert? 

Brown is a great WR but was taken in what round 5.  He's small, he's not blazing fast and wasn't special by any means.  He's a #1 now because he is a great route runner, is smart, is shifty in space and catches everything. 

If you can run crisp routes and have reliable hands you can be a great WR as long as you have a QB that can get you the ball.  Until we have that we won't be successful.  

[Rockice_8]

8 minutes ago, Sapo28 said:

I do  think you could argue Michael Thomas of the Saints as a "#1WR."  But  I agree that solid depth at WR has been the way to win in this time of shutdown/cover corners.

The patriots would be a much scarier team with a healthy Edleman to accompany Cooks/Hogan/Amendola, I'd take that group over Julio/Sanu/Gabriel any day.

He's not a freak WR though.  He's not blazing fast or extremely quick, he's smart and catches everything because Brees puts the ball in the right places.

Is Adam Thelien a #1 WR.  He was top 5 in receiving.

Are number #1 WR based on stats only?  If you break 1,100 yards in a season does that make you #1 eligible?

I'm being serious because the types of WR's in the top 10 in receiving are wildly different and drafted all over the place from top 5 to undrafted.

I laugh when I hear well he's not a #1 or he's only a #2.

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

What makes a #1 WR is my question?  6'3" plus with blazing speed?  Elite hands?  Has a 40" vert? 

Brown is a great WR but was taken in what round 5.  He's small, he's not blazing fast and wasn't special by any means.  He's a #1 now because he is a great route runner, is smart, is shifty in space and catches everything. 

If you can run crisp routes and have reliable hands you can be a great WR as long as you have a QB that can get you the ball.  Until we have that we won't be successful.  

Ya but Big Ben throws him the ball. You can’t use the reason why a WR is good as the QB that throws it to them. You can’t oick and choose when to use in for or against a guy. Bc some were just saying Moncrief only produces bc of Luck. Than Brown only produces bc of Big Ben. While it’s not completely false it is how you develop a WR just like anything else. Let’s use Davante Adams as an example. He’s groomed into a nice WR and has Rodgers throwing to him which surely helps tons. Put him on the Jets and you get probably just decent production. We got Enunwa late and he was developing nicely and looked like a steal, but dude just had a HUGE surgery. Career could be done.

[Bianconero]

I'm referring to "#1" as being a clear cut #1 WR option in an offense 

The Saints pepper the field so I wouldn't exactly qualify Thomas as the #1 but I can see it

[Bobby816]

To try and get back on track on this thread... the point of debating WRs and all is to add talent to the offense. Which I think we all can agree on needs to be upgraded in all phases really. From QB, to OLine, RB, WR and TE. Obviously QB being the most important of them all. But to put that QBbin a situation to succeed, the other phases need to be upgraded as well. We can’t do it all in 1 offseason, but we should be able to fill several holes on this roster mainly on offense.