Uncle Buck Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Just now, vike daddy said: Buckie, we aren't going to pay Keenum an eight figure salary to hold a clipboard. Oh, I know that. I'm just betting there is a team out there that would think he is worth that eight-figure salary if we end up deciding to roll with Teddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 53 minutes ago, vike daddy said: i am not convinced we cannot have both. That's what I've been suggesting for a while. I still don't see this massive payday for Teddy. What did he put on tape this season that would make another team willing to commit to him as QBOTF? I still believe an RG3-like team-friendly deal is very possible. Franchise Keenum. Then essentially give them the offseason to battle it out. Whichever shows to be the best fit, wins the job and gets a new deal next offseason. That safeguards against picking the wrong guy, and it protects against a possible scheme change affecting performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 It's interesting to see how close the poll results are for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Klomp said: That's what I've been suggesting for a while. I still don't see this massive payday for Teddy. What did he put on tape this season that would make another team willing to commit to him as QBOTF? I still believe an RG3-like team-friendly deal is very possible. Franchise Keenum. Then essentially give them the offseason to battle it out. Whichever shows to be the best fit, wins the job and gets a new deal next offseason. That safeguards against picking the wrong guy, and it protects against a possible scheme change affecting performance. So $30m on two QBs? What's the franchise tag for a QB going to be? As I've said earlier, why not just make a run for Kirk Cousins, he's better than both. Can't see the Redskins franchising him, I think it will cost them in excess of $30m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 If it comes down to it, I still believe the team would let Case walk if it came down to having to franchise him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: So $30m on two QBs? What's the franchise tag for a QB going to be? As I've said earlier, why not just make a run for Kirk Cousins, he's better than both. Can't see the Redskins franchising him, I think it will cost them in excess of $30m. For ONE year in order to figure out the right guy, sure. I'd rather do that than hastily pick one to pay $20 million and it blows up in our face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 This is an interesting subject and certainly one that will garner alot of attention in the coming months. My opinion is that they should keep Teddy, he's going to be alot cheaper as well. I think everyone (coaches, players, fans) knows what a peak Case Keenum looks like, because we have imo seen the peak Case Keenum this year. And while that QB is good enough to help you win games, i dont think anyone can look and say this guy can bring us back from a 14 point deficit in the 4th quarter to win a big game or put the team on his back. He's not a franchise QB. That's just not who he is, and its not to say you need a QB like that to win or be successful. But at some point in the future, likely in playoffs or superbowl your gonna need a guy at QB that can put you on his back and win you the game. Someone you look at as your QBOTF/franchise guy. Now im not saying that Teddy IS that guy, because we dont know. But for that very reason i think that's the intrigue with Teddy, is that he's still fairly young and you dont know exactly what you have in him maybe just yet due to the injury. Now i realize that's a double edged sword, but if your looking at the future outlook of this team it has to factor in that Teddy may in fact have more potential to grow into the franchise QB than Case Keenum who will be 30 next season i believe. Before Teddy's injury i think many of us were pleased with his progression and believed he was poised to take that next step. Why should an injury change our views on a player if he was able to come back 100% healthy, which he was? I know it was a severe injury, but he's made a spectacular recovery. Do we really want to let him walk, knowing that he may have franchise QB potential? He just turned 25 in Nov. Now dont get me wrong, i really like Case Keenum. He loves football, he loves his team, and he has the heart/passion that is unquestioned. But he is what he is, and he's a below average-average starting QB, that has shown at times erratic accuracy and poor decision making. Dont fool yourself, he's playing on a damn good team with some damn good WR's who have bailed him out way to many times. He does show some very good things at times as well, but he's just not consistent enough. As much as i hate to say it, unless our defense plays absolutely lights out and were able to run the ball at will, Case's blemishes will end up costing us to some extent in the playoffs. All those underthrows that have gone overlooked and possible interceptable passes will eventually come back to bite him. These defenses in the playoffs are good, and they will take advantage of that given the opportunity. SO Case is my biggest concern on this team rolling into the playoffs. He's already regressed from the beginning of the season imo, and is much more likely to regress next year than progress. The season he had is to remenisent of the Nick Foles season a few years ago, so im very worried about committing to Case long term. Im completely fine with a 1-2 year deal to bring him back to compete, but PLEASE dont make the mistake of locking him up to a long term deal Rick. Regardless of what happens with Case and Teddy though. I do believe Minnesota needs to draft a QB. With as talented/deep as this roster is i think they can afford to take a strike on a young QB early if they want. I dont know that they take one in round 1, but i wouldnt rule that possibility out either if a guy slips to the end of round 1 that has supreme talent (Allen, Mayfield, Jackson). I think everyone knows i am one of the biggest Lamar Jackson fans, so id jump at the chance of getting him. A mid round/late round guy i like is Mike White from Western Kentucky, he has some nice tools to work with. Plus lets be honest here, what Vikings fan wouldnt welcome a future offensive core of Lamar Jackson, Dalvin Cook, Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen? That would be scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkolMasterMN Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 For me, I'm just trying to believe in Case as much as possible because frankly that's what we need us Vikings fans to do. We need to believe in this guy, because he's obviously a major key to bringing us our first Super Bowl trophy. Now, IF Case Keenum were to bring us that coveted championship as quarterback, something Tarkenton, Kramer, Culpepper, Favre never did, you guys can't possibly tell me we would let him walk. He would be a Minnesota hero forever. I think this is a topic that really is frankly going to depend on how the playoffs turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morleericks Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Case easily. No, Bridgewater never had this much talent around him, nor as good an offensive line protecting him, but he has shown nothing (at least in my opinion) that warrants him replacing Keenum next year. He is young, and seemingly, a genuine good guy according to the team. I like him. I just don't want to give up "What we know we have in Case", for Bridgewater; who may never be the same following his gruesome injury over a year and a half ago. I subscribe to the idea of signing Keenum to a 2 or 3 year deal; since he already my age -- 29 yrs old; then drafting a QB in the upcoming draft. To hopefully sit and learn for a while before having to see the field. Mayfield (because he will un-deservedly drop) is my pick at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Here's a question I just thought about... Should we be putting stock into what a player's peak is, or instead look at where said player will likely plateau? To me, I think the coaching staff probably favors consistency more than what one man's extremes are. You have to be careful about that when looking at stats too, I think. It's just another piece of context to look at. Watched a show today, and someone did a stat comparison of the last six games of Jimmy Garoppolo and Colin Kaepernick. They were pretty similar, I'll admit (I have the graphic if someone wants to see it). However, what the raw stats failed to point out was that Kaepernick's numbers ranged from 296 yards and 3 TDs to 133 yards and 1 TD, while Jimmy G's numbers were much more consistent and predictable. A coach can scheme around predictable. What you can't plan for is when a player goes off-script or just is very unpredictable week-to-week in what you'll get from them. Keenum and Derek Carr were 50 yards apart with the same number of TDs on the regular season in the same number of games. Which would you rather have had this season? The one who stayed within an 80-yard range (from 227 to 304) in six straight weeks after the bye including three weeks between 280-282 (Keenum) or the guy who would go from three straight weeks under 175 (with two under 150) to three straight weeks over 300 (with a 400 in there)? By all means, if someone with the better plateau has a better ceiling, sign me up. But it's not necessarily going to be like that. I subscribe to the theory we don't need amazing QB play in order to win, with the roster currently assembled. We only need someone to do just enough. To me, that means plateaus should probably be favored over peaks. And because I don't believe amazing QB play is needed, I wouldn't pay one amazing longterm money either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: They might not want to do that, but if that's the situation, you have to do what you have to do to get a quality QB for your team. QBs like Teddy and Case don't grow on trees, and to me, it seems like a wise use of draft capital to add a proven QB to your roster instead of rolling the dice on a rookie who may or may not work out. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Before the draft teams will not want to move 2018 picks for Teddy. Case possibly, but discounted. It's always a hard sell to give up picks for a vet QB, when they had 6 weeks in free agency to sign a stop gap QB already, and persevered their 2018 draft capital for a potential QB draft prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: That makes sense, Goph, but at the same time, don't we have the upper hand until their contract runs out? They shouldn't be able to negotiate with players on other teams who are currently under contract. Vikings are only exclusive for really a couple days (unofficially a month), and the rest of the league has about 6 weeks. Teddy & Case are both free agents, do I'm not sure what you mean by under contract. If you mean if we hypothetically signed they both (while we're exclusive to then only), then that's either incredibly foolish on their part (especially if neither got tagged & to the lower salary back QB), or we simply crazy overpaid to keep the 2nd one, which would devalue them on the trade market as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: I would probably be willing to go that far, but I would try to get them both signed to contracts they that satisfy them without resorting to using the franchise tag on either one. As you said, if we need to keep them both for next year, there are worse things that can happen. QB is the most important position on the field, and I can't believe there wouldn't be someone willing to pay us for one of them. Yes QB is the most important position, and yes someone will pay up .... But it won't be draft capital. The QB agents know their will be money available in free agency by other teams (unofficial talks are happening now), where they don't need to accept a Vikings deal early, until a tag is dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 12 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: I could see Zimmer telling Teddy (and meaning it) that the job is up for grabs and that he has just as much chance of being the starter as Case next year. There could be a $15M difference in 1st years money between Case & Teddy. Teddy would be a fool to entirely believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 12 hours ago, vikingsrule said: So $30m on two QBs? What's the franchise tag for a QB going to be? As I've said earlier, why not just make a run for Kirk Cousins, he's better than both. Can't see the Redskins franchising him, I think it will cost them in excess of $30m. I think skins tag cousins, you pay to keep good QBs. They are not going to go from Cousins to a "Brandon Weeden" QB, if it's just money they are giving up with especially if it's just 6-7 million extra on 1 year. They are not going to sentence themselves to 4th in the NFC East in April, if they have anything to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.