2017 Postseason Discussion Thread

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, champ11 said:

They also have guys like Chris freaking Hogan trying to beat Jalen Ramsey in coverage. They should have more SB's tbh. 

I guess I wasn’t paying much attention to who was covering who.  Was the Ramsey/Hogan thing a situational thing? Or was Ramsey covering Hogan the majority of the game?

If it was the majority of the game, that’d be a huge win for the Patriots.  Ramsey is arguably the best CB in the game and if he spent the majority of it covering Hogan, whose NEs 3rd or 4th option at best, what a wasted use of the best CB in the game.  

[champ11]

4 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I guess I wasn’t paying much attention to who was covering who.  Was the Ramsey/Hogan thing a situational thing? Or was Ramsey covering Hogan the majority of the game?

If it was the majority of the game, that’d be a huge win for the Patriots.  Ramsey is arguably the best CB in the game and if he spent the majority of it covering Hogan, whose NEs 3rd or 4th option at best, what a wasted use of the best CB in the game.  

It was on one particular deep ball. I don't think Ramsey was shadowing him or anything. I was just making the point that their skill position talent beyond Gronk/Edelman is usually mediocre at best. Even Cooks is a meh player to me. That offense is just a machine with Brady 

[germ-x]

4 minutes ago, champ11 said:

It was on one particular deep ball. I don't think Ramsey was shadowing him or anything. I was just making the point that their skill position talent beyond Gronk/Edelman is usually mediocre at best. Even Cooks is a meh player to me. That offense is just a machine with Brady 

Oh yeah, for sure.  I mean their RBs are White, Lewis, Burkhead.

[champ11]

1 minute ago, germ-x said:

Oh yeah, for sure.  I mean their RBs are White, Lewis, Burkhead.

It's gotta be frustrating for Pats fans bc the one time they had an elite receiver they were the best offense of all time lol 

[jolly red giant]

The Eagles have been the form team all year - last night the Pats were there for the taking and the Jags blew it.

[BroncosFan2010]

I am sorry to say this, but I want NE to win. I think Brady is the best of all time and a 6th ring would cement that opinion IMHO.

I also reside in Minny and the Vikings are my 2nd team. Distant second team, but second nonetheless. After all the noise about how Vikings fans were treated at the Eagles stadium, screw that team.

Also, think of how disappointing it is to go from potentially having a home town team in the Super Bowl against the Evil Empire. The 'Minnesota Nice' stereotype backdropped against Eagles/Pats fans is going to be a hilarious juxtaposition lol

[7DnBrnc53]

5 hours ago, germ-x said:

Agreed.  The Patriot defense for quite a few years now, from a talent perspective,  is average at best.  It’s why Belichick is the best of all time.  He’s a head and shoulders above everyone when it comes to adjusting his scheme to fit the talent, not asking them to do things they aren’t good at (like Denver having Todd Davis trying to cover RBs and TEs), and putting them in situations to be successful.

Even in the early 2000's when they had a good D, they weren't that athletic, especially the linebackers. McGinest, Vrabel, and Bruschi weren't really that fast.

Speaking of Bruschi, it's sad that Dr. Z hates the Broncos so much. I got SI's The Football Book for Christmas in 2009. In it, there was a list of the 25 best LB's. Somehow, Bruschi made it. And, Gradishar was nowhere to be found. Bruschi couldn't hold Randy's jock.

Also, in that same book, Steve Atwater wasn't one of the six safeties on Dr. Z's All-90's team. However, he had Merton (spastic colon dance and I'm cool because I wear a bandanna) Hanks on that team. Hanks couldn't hold a candle to Atwater.

As for Brady, I'm not a big fan. He's a product of the system and a bunch of lucky breaks. He would have struggled to succeed on most teams. I don't want him winning six. He doesn't deserve it.

However, are the Eagles (who, in my opinion, have the better team) gonna play smart? Or do they fold in the fourth quarter like Atlanta and Jacksonville did?

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

As for Brady, I'm not a big fan. He's a product of the system and a bunch of lucky breaks. He would have struggled to succeed on most teams. I don't want him winning six. He doesn't deserve it.

So much of sport is lucky breaks and falling into the correct system. I really don't understand how anyone can have this opinion of Brady. Would Jordan be the GOAT if he didn't have the GOAT coach? Brady falls in that same category. He is unbelievably clutch and has that same killer attitude that Jordan had. Robert Horry was a lucky guy who managed a lot of rings. Brady is a heck of a lot closer to a MJ level sports talent than Robert Horry.

Tom is a terrific football player and when the ball is snapped, a joy to watch. After the play? I could do without the whining. But that too is part of the game. HOF QB's always work the refs. Manning did it here too.

And teams sure seem to 'fold' a lot in the 4th quarter against Brady led teams. Maybe its because the defense cant stop him rather than everyone simply folding?

I guess it could just be blind hate. I was adamantly against Kobe Bryant growing up, as he rolled over my beloved Trailbalzers each year. But as I grew up I began to appreciate the type of guy that I got to watch, even if he was murdering my team. I made a similar evolution regarding Brady.

[jsthomp2007]

There is no comparison between Brady and Jordan.  You look at Jordan and there is no doubt he was the GOAT.  Jordan was by far the best competitor I ever saw...his will was unmatched.  I think if Jordan really wanted to have had an undefeated season he could have...if he had put his mind to it, it would have been done.  Phil was a product of Jordan. Do you think Phil would have taken a 90s Nuggets team to the playoffs?  I doubt it...even with Chris Jackson and Dikembe.  

[bMiller031]

22 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

There is no comparison between Brady and Jordan.  You look at Jordan and there is no doubt he was the GOAT.  Jordan was by far the best competitor I ever saw...his will was unmatched.  I think if Jordan really wanted to have had an undefeated season he could have...if he had put his mind to it, it would have been done.  Phil was a product of Jordan. Do you think Phil would have taken a 90s Nuggets team to the playoffs?  I doubt it...even with Chris Jackson and Dikembe.  

If Brady wins this year, I dont know how you make the argument that Jordan was more dominant than Brady. 6 Super Bowls is absolutely unfathomable- basically the NBA equivalent to Bill Russell's 11 titles- except in a much more competitive league. 

[jsthomp2007]

13 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

If Brady wins this year, I dont know how you make the argument that Jordan was more dominant than Brady. 6 Super Bowls is absolutely unfathomable- basically the NBA equivalent to Bill Russell's 11 titles- except in a much more competitive league. 

Easily...Jordan never got overwhelmed or daunted by any kind of pressure.  Brady does...the Broncos have the proven system to get Brady away from his game.  I don't think the quantity of championships means anything in this case.  Jordan also didn't play for two  years, and he could have kept playing after the six championships.  You can also say that Jordan doesn't hold any major NBA records like most points scored; but he is always in the conversation as THE greatest.  Why is Jordan more dominant is kind of like asking why the sky is blue...it just is...there is your moment of Zen for the day. 

[iLikeDefense]

Comparing players from different sports rarely works and is his case it doesn’t work either. We rarely see an incomplete team make it to the Super Bowl because winning football games relies on good players, schemes and adjustments from coaches. In the NBA, you have Lebron James carrying his pathetic team to the finals. Basketball success is more aligned with individual talent than football is. But I do agree if we were to compare Jordan to Brady. I’m taking Jordan. I’m taking Kareem too. Probably even Lebron.

[thebestever6]

I think the key to superbowls are trench play and a franchise qb. We've seen it time and time again. This will be a great superbowl because Brady is A generational qb and phillys d line is generational. Philly and New England also have talented olines.

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

So much of sport is lucky breaks and falling into the correct system. I really don't understand how anyone can have this opinion of Brady. Would Jordan be the GOAT if he didn't have the GOAT coach? Brady falls in that same category. He is unbelievably clutch and has that same killer attitude that Jordan had. Robert Horry was a lucky guy who managed a lot of rings. Brady is a heck of a lot closer to a MJ level sports talent than Robert Horry.

Tom is a terrific football player and when the ball is snapped, a joy to watch. After the play? I could do without the whining. But that too is part of the game. HOF QB's always work the refs. Manning did it here too.

And teams sure seem to 'fold' a lot in the 4th quarter against Brady led teams. Maybe its because the defense cant stop him rather than everyone simply folding?

I guess it could just be blind hate. I was adamantly against Kobe Bryant growing up, as he rolled over my beloved Trailbalzers each year. But as I grew up I began to appreciate the type of guy that I got to watch, even if he was murdering my team. I made a similar evolution regarding Brady.

I feel the exact same.  I used to hate the great players that weren’t a part of my favorite teams or who I thought won too much.  That changed when I was in college 7 years ago for some reason.  I hated Jordan, Kobe, Manning, Brady.  At some point I began to appreciate just how good they were.  Didn’t mean I cared for everything about them (hate Kobe’s personality), but could appreciate their competitiveness and desire to be great every day.

The majority of professional athletes are competitive, but the majority of that majority are gameday competitive, which is fine.  By that I mean, when the lights come on they play hard and want to win, but during the week, going through practices, they’re just going through the motions like any normal profession.

The names I mentioned above (Jordan, Kobe, Manning, Brady) and quite a few others have that competitive desire in everything they do.

I remember reading an article on Kobe when he was on team USA, some young pup had made the team and came down for breakfast in the motel at 6 am and was planning on shooting for a few hours at a local facility.  Kobe was already sitting down eating and the player sat with Kobe and told him when he finished breakfast he was going to go shoot and asked if Kobe wanted to come.  Kobe said he would so after breakfast they went.

When they were about half way done with the session the young player went to get a drink of water and saw the guy who ran the facility.  The young player said sorry for getting you up so early to open, but I wanted to get some work in.  The worker said oh it was no problem I’ve been here since 4 am to open it up for Kobe and just stuck around because you were planning on coming in. 

Its stories like that where you just have to appreciate not only the skill of the players, but the fact that they didn’t get where they are by accident.

[bMiller031]

2 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Easily...Jordan never got overwhelmed or daunted by any kind of pressure.  Brady does...the Broncos have the proven system to get Brady away from his game.  I don't think the quantity of championships means anything in this case.  Jordan also didn't play for two  years, and he could have kept playing after the six championships.  You can also say that Jordan doesn't hold any major NBA records like most points scored; but he is always in the conversation as THE greatest.  Why is Jordan more dominant is kind of like asking why the sky is blue...it just is...there is your moment of Zen for the day. 

So which carries more weight? A Super Bowl or an NBA Championship? I'd argue that a Super Bowl is the equivalent to about 1.5 NBA Championships. The margin for error in the NFL is so much smaller than the NBA.

Great NFL teams lose all the time. They're susceptible to losing to inferior teams every time they suit up because it's one game elimination. NBA teams rarely lose 7 game series to inferior teams. To play in 8 Super Bowls in 16 years and win 5 (probably) is ,IMO, the most impressive athletic feat in modern sports history.