2017 Postseason Discussion Thread

[bMiller031]

22 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

The team is surrounded by too much controversy. To me the Patriots are the Barry Bonds of Football. Asterisk.

That's bull**** homer-ism. Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time, this Patriots run has been the best 16 year stretch in NFL history, and Bill B is a top 5 coach of all time. I've hated every second of it- but it's the reality. 

Its silly to deny these things simply because you don't like them. 

[7DnBrnc53]

12 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

That's bull**** homer-ism. Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time, this Patriots run has been the best 16 year stretch in NFL history, and Bill B is a top 5 coach of all time. I've hated every second of it- but it's the reality. 

Its silly to deny these things simply because you don't like them. 

How is pointing out truth (that the Pats cheated) BS homerism?

[thebestever6]

33 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

That's bull**** homer-ism. Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time, this Patriots run has been the best 16 year stretch in NFL history, and Bill B is a top 5 coach of all time. I've hated every second of it- but it's the reality. 

Its silly to deny these things simply because you don't like them. 

I agree about the Patriots but I think Brady gets wayyyy too much credit. I mean the Patriots as a whole are phenomenal every year. Number 1 scoring d. They're like 8 deep weapons wise every year. They lose Gronk last year and edelman steps up, lose welker and edelman steps in, lose Gronk Danny Amendola steps up. They lose Aaron Hernandez because he murdered someone and they just keep churning out guys. I'd love to see Peyton and Belichick. Manning had very top heavy weapons in Harrison, Wayne, DT, Dallas Clark, Pierre Garcon.

Bellicheck has given Brady both in Gronk, Moss, Welker, Edelman, Cooks, Amendola, Troy Brown, Deion Branch. I mean their 3rd string rb was argyably mvp of last year's superbowl. I'll never see a well oiled machine for this span of time ever again. And Bellicheck, Craft, Brady all deserve full credit.

It's  almost like I can't  view Belichick and Brady seperately. I can't view bill as a coach or brady as a qb. They're the best entity the NFL has ever seen.

[jsthomp2007]

23 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

That's bull**** homer-ism. Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time, this Patriots run has been the best 16 year stretch in NFL history, and Bill B is a top 5 coach of all time. I've hated every second of it- but it's the reality. 

Its silly to deny these things simply because you don't like them. 

Wouldn't call it bull***.  But,  I won't deny the homer-ism. 

[thebestever6]

How is Belicheck a top 5 coach and Brady the best qb. This is what I'm saying step on belichick to praise Brady. 

Belichick is the best coach and gm ever. Have we ever seen a coach/gm fit personnel to the team ever?

[7DnBrnc53]

43 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I agree about the Patriots but I think Brady gets wayyyy too much credit. I mean the Patriots as a whole are phenomenal every year. Number 1 scoring d. They're like 8 deep weapons wise every year. They lose Gronk last year and edelman steps up, lose welker and edelman steps in, lose Gronk Danny Amendola steps up. They lose Aaron Hernandez because he murdered someone and they just keep churning out guys. I'd love to see Peyton and Belichick. Manning had very top heavy weapons in Harrison, Wayne, DT, Dallas Clark, Pierre Garcon.

Bellicheck has given Brady both in Gronk, Moss, Welker, Edelman, Cooks, Amendola, Troy Brown, Deion Branch. I mean their 3rd string rb was argyably mvp of last year's superbowl. I'll never see a well oiled machine for this span of time ever again. And Bellicheck, Craft, Brady all deserve full credit.

It's  almost like I can't  view Belichick and Brady seperately. I can't view bill as a coach or brady as a qb. They're the best entity the NFL has ever seen.

I agree that Brady gets way too much credit. I have been saying that for years. In a lot of the playoff wins that they have had in this era, Brady isn't involved in the game-deciding play. He has always been more of a system QB, in my view. He wouldn't have this success anywhere else.

I also agree that they have the right type of weapons for their offense: Quick WR's that can work the short and intermediate game, and RB's with great hands. Brady has also had one or two great players in his offense since 2007 (Moss, Gronk, Hernandez). That makes it easier on everyone.

Also, another factor in NE's success since 2001 that can't be overlooked: The AFC Least.

Since 2001, the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets have combined for over 40 different starting QB's and about 18 different HC's. It seems like at least one of those teams changes HC's every year. Miami has had two interim coaches this decade (Todd Bowles in 2011 and Dan Campbell in 2015). When the Pats have the stability, and the division rivals don't, that can't be overlooked. To win the war, you have to win the home front first.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

That's bull**** homer-ism. Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time, this Patriots run has been the best 16 year stretch in NFL history, and Bill B is a top 5 coach of all time. I've hated every second of it- but it's the reality. 

Its silly to deny these things simply because you don't like them. 

Amen. No team in my lifetime will replicate what BB and Brady have done in the past 16 years. You can nitpick all day, but it wont happen.

Within all of our lifetimes we will almost certainly never see a Denver Broncos team with the sustained success that Tom and Bill have brought to NE. That's just reality, its a near objective truth. Statistically the chances of any team replicating what NE has done in the past 16 years within any of our lifetimes is very low, but to take that a step farther and pick a specific team to replicate this success, that being our team? Near zero probability.

What they have done is succeed to a near unparalleled level. Should they win, their feat of obtaining 6 Super Bowls in 16 seasons will likely not be replicated for at least 40-50 years (Going off the last hyper dynasty, the Pack in 1960's). Its a storyline that 50 years from now will be one of, if not the, central narratives of the sport as a whole.

Trying to minimize their success almost certainly has to come from an appeal to emotion rather than an objective look at the facts and statistical improbability of what their two top dogs have accomplished.

[iLikeDefense]

There are always going to be people who down play or attempt to minimalize others success. You are seeing it with the GS Warriors, some won’t give them credit.

[thebestever6]

6 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I agree that Brady gets way too much credit. I have been saying that for years. In a lot of the playoff wins that they have had in this era, Brady isn't involved in the game-deciding play. He has always been more of a system QB, in my view. He wouldn't have this success anywhere else.

I also agree that they have the right type of weapons for their offense: Quick WR's that can work the short and intermediate game, and RB's with great hands. Brady has also had one or two great players in his offense since 2007 (Moss, Gronk, Hernandez). That makes it easier on everyone.

Also, another factor in NE's success since 2001 that can't be overlooked: The AFC Least.

Since 2001, the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets have combined for over 40 different starting QB's and about 18 different HC's. It seems like at least one of those teams changes HC's every year. Miami has had two interim coaches this decade (Todd Bowles in 2011 and Dan Campbell in 2015). When the Pats have the stability, and the division rivals don't, that can't be overlooked. To win the war, you have to win the home front first.

Interesting take its funny Brady has had weapons since 2007 right around the time spygate came out. I think that dynasty is phenomenal if you aint cheating you aint trying. It still waters it down a little.

[The Helicopter]

10 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

That's bull**** homer-ism. Tom Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time, this Patriots run has been the best 16 year stretch in NFL history, and Bill B is a top 5 coach of all time. I've hated every second of it- but it's the reality. 

Its silly to deny these things simply because you don't like them. 

He’s the best quick release pocket passer of all time...are you happy now?

[AKRNA]

13 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

He’s the best quick release pocket passer of all time...are you happy now?

I don't know, Marino sort of set that standard.

[germ-x]

Brady is the best.  There were better talents.  Brady’s pretty damn average or worse across the board.  But greatness is measured by championships, stats, and to an extent longevity to achieve those categories.  If Brady plays until he’s 45 (which I don’t think he will, I think he has 2-3 years max) he likely sets every statistical record aside from maybe passing yards.

He’s the greatest of all time.  As is Belichick as both an HC/GM.  Honestly, people shouldn’t be upset about this, but should enjoy and appreciate the dominance these 2 have demonstrated in their profession.

[The Helicopter]

33 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I don't know, Marino sort of set that standard.

Yeah, Marino was pretty special...easy to forget for the younger gen. But he never got a ring so he’s not in the discussion

[germ-x]

1 minute ago, The Helicopter said:

Yeah, Marino was pretty special...easy to forget for the younger gen. But he never got a ring so he’s not in the discussion

Honestly, no he isn’t and it has nothing to do with generations.  

Haha, people always hate winners, especially when it comes to fandom.  I hate the Patriots, hope they lose every game.  But it still doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate greatness when I see it. The fact of the matter is they’re just better and no matter what anyone else in the league tries to do to compete with them they’re still inferior.

Like it disgusts me that no other team can seem to figure it out, but it’s just a credit to the fact that they’re operating on another level in every phase of running an organization.

Luckily for the rest of the NFL and it’s fans it’s likely to end very soon.

[7DnBrnc53]

9 hours ago, germ-x said:

Brady is the best.  There were better talents.  Brady’s pretty damn average or worse across the board.  But greatness is measured by championships, stats, and to an extent longevity to achieve those categories.  If Brady plays until he’s 45 (which I don’t think he will, I think he has 2-3 years max) he likely sets every statistical record aside from maybe passing yards.

He’s the greatest of all time.  As is Belichick as both an HC/GM.  Honestly, people shouldn’t be upset about this, but should enjoy and appreciate the dominance these 2 have demonstrated in their profession.

I give the Pats some credit for winning on Sunday (even though they were saved by a whistle with the Jack fumble force). Their defense was solid, and the punter (Ryan Allen) doesn't get enough credit for downing the Jags at the 10 three times (an overlooked facet in the NE comeback).

And, even though I don't like Belichick, I do give him credit for some of the things he does. For example, he was right in laughing at the Broncos for playing McKenzie at punt returner in that SNF game.

However, the facts are that he is a cheater. Spygate happened. Another AFC Title Game win doesn't wash that away.

And, to say that Brady is the best because of records and longevity isn't right. You can call him the most accomplished QB ever, but he isn't anywhere near GOAT status. The Pats win as a team. To say that one player should be the GOAT because of that is misguided, and it is a product of what I call the QB cult (which is what the media drives with their "QB Driven League" rhetoric).

In fact, to call anyone GOAT isn't responsible because football has spanned several decades with countless rule changes. Calling people like Brady and Jerry Rice the best ever isn't accurate because they play(ed) in passer friendly eras and in passing systems where you can rack up great numbers. In the pre-1978 days, both players wouldn't have had nearly as much success playing in less sophisticated passing attacks.