TheOnlyThing Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, Leader said: Andy Herman: So taking a look at my grades so far this year, some tiers start to develop: Tier 1 - Rodgers, Adams, Bakhtiari, Clark Tier 2 - A. Jones, Daniels, Linsley, Jaire Tier 3 - L. Taylor, J. Williams, Bulaga, Lowry, Fackrell Tier 4 - Montgomery, Martinez Tier 5 - Anyone not listed Tier 6 - M. Lewis, L. Patrick, Burks, J’Mon, EQ, M. Adams, Spriggs Tier 7 - Kendricks, Morrison, House, Whitehead, J. Jackson, Brice Tier 8 - McCray, Gilbert, HaHaTier 9 - Perry, Matthews Tier 10 - Byron Bell When your starting RG is at the bottom of the barrel, that can be problematic. There again, when your starting OLBs are just one tier up - that also can be problematic. Not sure exactly how to figure Tier 5. Perry and Matthews are not just problematic because they are not producing like 2 of the highest paid OLBs, which they are, or like 2 of the highest paid members of the GB packers, which they also are, but because they are not any good by any objective measure any more. Clay has earned his 80th edge rating, but at least he shows a pulse once in a while, and he won't be getting paid more than $11M or anywhere near that in 2019 (in GB or otherwise). On the other hand, Perry is hurt yet again, is somehow the 100th rated edge in the NFL, and will count $14.75M against next year's cap. Gute's got to get to work fixing the PROBLEM at OLB for 2019 just like he had to do something about the PROBLEM at CB prior to 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, Leader said: Andy Herman: So taking a look at my grades so far this year, some tiers start to develop: Tier 1 - Rodgers, Adams, Bakhtiari, Clark Tier 2 - A. Jones, Daniels, Linsley, Jaire Tier 3 - L. Taylor, J. Williams, Bulaga, Lowry, Fackrell Tier 4 - Montgomery, Martinez Tier 5 - Anyone not listed Tier 6 - M. Lewis, L. Patrick, Burks, J’Mon, EQ, M. Adams, Spriggs Tier 7 - Kendricks, Morrison, House, Whitehead, J. Jackson, Brice Tier 8 - McCray, Gilbert, HaHa Tier 9 - Perry, Matthews Tier 10 - Byron Bell When your starting RG is at the bottom of the barrel, that can be problematic. There again, when your starting OLBs are just one tier up - that also can be problematic. Not sure exactly how to figure Tier 5. Those OL rankings are all over the place. I think Linsley, McCray and Taylor are generous. Bell is getting killed because I guess you have to kill someone on the OL if you're not going to blame Rodgers for any sacks? Bell shouldn't be doing too much worse than the rest of the interior. Spriggs is probably low if we're figuring Tier 5 is JAG? MAdams and Lowry being that far apart is goofy to me as well. I think there's a good few posters here who see line play better than Herman does.. How does House even pull that grade? He was cuttable bad before he got injured. So anyone below that tier should be cut as of yesterday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) This was always my take. Forget for a moment the names of the players. Pass rushers are harder to find period. They are almost impossible to find in FA while CBs are much more plentiful. For this reason alone, King would have to be a much better player than Watt to justify the pick. The fact that Watt has been better and King is injured all the time is only hindsight but adds salt to the wound. Edited November 24, 2018 by packfanfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just now, packfanfb said: This was always my take. Forget for a moment the names of the players. Pass rushers are harder to find period. They are almost impossible to find in FA while CBs are much more plentiful. For this reason alone, King would have to be a much better player than Watt to justify the pick. The fact that Watt has been better and King is injured all the time is only hindsight but adds salt to the wound. Watt being better than King is false. Watt is not even a good pass rusher at this point. Everybody can agree that the one positions PFF can and often does get right is front seven play on defense and OL play on offense. Watt is rated as an average EDGE. He has dominated against two teams and been painfully average against every single other team. He is an average player. Period. The Packers didn't necessarily nail the King pick, but they did not miss on some elite or even good pass rusher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Watt being better than King is false. Watt is not even a good pass rusher at this point. Everybody can agree that the one positions PFF can and often does get right is front seven play on defense and OL play on offense. Watt is rated as an average EDGE. He has dominated against two teams and been painfully average against every single other team. He is an average player. Period. The Packers didn't necessarily nail the King pick, but they did not miss on some elite or even good pass rusher. What's better? An average player who is available all the time, or a good player who is available half the time? Serious question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Bashaud Breeland was fined $10,026 for his facemask against the Seahawks in last Thursday's game at Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just now, Mr. Fussnputz said: What's better? An average player who is available all the time, or a good player who is available half the time? Serious question. Obviously the average available player, but that's ignoring context. We had Matthews and Perry and nobody at corner. If we had the same medical grades on King/Watt, we made the right choice based on need and value. People forget we picked up a high fourth round pick to move down about five spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Food for thought Misc Games Rk Year Rnd Pick Player Pos DrAge Tm From To AP1 PB St CarAV G GS College/Univ 1 2017 1 11 Marshon Lattimore CB 21 NOR 2017 2018 0 1 2 8 24 24 Ohio St. College Stats 2 2017 1 16 Marlon Humphrey CB 21 BAL 2017 2018 0 0 1 3 24 10 Alabama College Stats 3 2017 1 18 Adoree' Jackson CB 21 TEN 2017 2018 0 0 2 6 26 23 USC College Stats 4 2017 1 22 Charles Harris OLB 22 MIA 2017 2018 0 0 0 4 21 3 Missouri College Stats 5 2017 1 24 Gareon Conley CB 22 OAK 2017 2018 0 0 1 0 12 9 Ohio St. College Stats 6 2017 1 27 TreDavious White CB 22 BUF 2017 2018 0 0 2 5 26 26 LSU College Stats 7 2017 1 30 T.J. Watt OLB 22 PIT 2017 2018 0 0 2 7 25 25 Wisconsin College Stats 8 2017 2 33 Kevin King CB 22 GNB 2017 2018 0 0 1 2 15 11 Washington College Stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Watt being better than King is false. Watt is not even a good pass rusher at this point. Everybody can agree that the one positions PFF can and often does get right is front seven play on defense and OL play on offense. Watt is rated as an average EDGE. He has dominated against two teams and been painfully average against every single other team. He is an average player. Period. The Packers didn't necessarily nail the King pick, but they did not miss on some elite or even good pass rusher. The point stands, which you didnt address, all else being equal, you go pass rusher. It was a lousy decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green machine Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Packers sign Looney to active roster and put Perry on IR https://www.packers.com/news/packers-sign-looney-to-active-roster-place-perry-on-ir Edited November 24, 2018 by green machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just now, packfanfb said: The point stands, which you didnt address, all else being equal, you go pass rusher. It was a lousy decision. Yeah, if they were rated equally I agree. Do you know that the Packers had Watt rated as highly as King? This isn't a case of the Packers drafting King when Watt was on the board, either. The Packers traded down. For all you know, the value of Watt wasn't as high as the 33rd overall pick and the 108th overall pick. The Packers didn't take Watt OR King with that pick. They traded down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Obviously the average available player, but that's ignoring context. We had Matthews and Perry and nobody at corner. If we had the same medical grades on King/Watt, we made the right choice based on need and value. People forget we picked up a high fourth round pick to move down about five spots. Its about available resources. That's why you address CB in free agency. Assuming you have a GM who uses free agency.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, green machine said: Packers sign Looney to active roster and put Perry on IR https://www.packers.com/news/packers-sign-looney-to-active-roster-place-perry-on-ir Predictable move, not that it really matters at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just now, packfanfb said: Its about available resources. That's why you address CB in free agency. Assuming you have a GM who uses free agency.... This is another myth that you cannot prove. For all you know, the Packers tried to sign Bouye and/or Gilmore that year. There have been a lot of stories on how Thompson tried signing free agents, but they didn't want to come here. So again, you cannot say that our GM ignored free agency. He didn't. He was as active in 2017 as Gute was in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Yeah, if they were rated equally I agree. Do you know that the Packers had Watt rated as highly as King? This isn't a case of the Packers drafting King when Watt was on the board, either. The Packers traded down. For all you know, the value of Watt wasn't as high as the 33rd overall pick and the 108th overall pick. The Packers didn't take Watt OR King with that pick. They traded down. Problem is when the Packers traded 28 they and everyone else knew the chance for Watt was gone. So they knew that and traded down for an extra 4, which is part of the problem. CB + 4th round pick isnt worth passing on an equally graded pass rusher... Again, the whole moral of the story here is pass rushers are hard to find. If anything, we should be taking more chances on them, not fewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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