MantyWrestler Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/27/2017 at 9:33 AM, HorizontoZenith said: I was hoping somebody would say that. Ravens haven't made the playoffs since they drafted Perriman. The Bills haven't made the payoffs once. The Cardinals have made the playoffs 4 times in Fitzgerald's career. Four times. Panthers have made it 3 times. You gonna tell me they made it to the Super Bowl? Okay, I'll tell you they made it to the Super Bowl the year Kelvin Benjamin was out for the season before the season started. Bears have been a horrible franchise the past ten years and I'll hear no arguments to the contrary. Bengals have been a horribly run franchise the past ten years and I'll hear no arguments to the contrary. The Cowboys have been a horribly run franchise the past ten years and I'll hear no arguments to the contrary, and they only changed this when Jerry started drafting all offensive linemen in the first, and they're living off that stroke of genius by him. Unless you think Dez Bryant is a pillar of their success. The Broncos? They were a horribly run franchise before Elway took over, and Thomas was taken a year before he took over. If you feel otherwise, I'm sure Norm has a Tim Tebow jersey to sell you. Let's not even venture into the problems of the Lions. Colts? Lol. Jaguars? Lol. Texans? Mention me when they win a playoff game. Chiefs? Where are their receivers? Chargers? You're talking about the worst run franchise in professional sports possibly. Dolphins? How many playoffs have they made in the past ten years when Brady hasn't been injured? Vikings? I think all four of their first round receivers have busted. Saints have done nothing since their Super Bowl win, which they won by stocking up on free agents, not by taking Robert Meachum. The Giants aren't even a good offensive team and they have the best receiveri n the game. The rest of the teams have all gone through massive playoff droughts or talent deficiencies as a direct result of taking receivers in the draft. Every time I bring something up, I'm hit back with, "Correlation does not equal causation..." How many times do I have to bring up repeated patterns associated with taking a receiver in round one before ONE of the patterns out of DOZENS of patterns SUGGESTS causation? It's a bad idea to take a receiver in round one, especially more so today when teams are passing on less physically complete receivers in early rounds only to find that they turn into all-pros even with those limitations? The best receiver in the NFL was a 6th round pick. The Vikings took 4 receivers in the first round in the past ten years and their two best since Randy Moss and Cris Carter have been late round draft picks, and I think Thielen was undrafted. Interesting arguments but are you saying the Cardinals are bad because they drafted a pro bowl WR because they are this year but have been pretty good. The Bills are bad for drafting a bad one? Maybe their bad not because they drafted a bad WR but because they draft poorly overall. Why aren’t the Falcons in the dumper? i do agree that WR is overrated and I think teams take flyers on WR almost as much as QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillparsi1 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I'm not saying we should go WR (would love one in the 2nd) if we are picking high, but for all the arguments talking about how teams picked WRs high and then didn't do much, I'm just curious, besides QB - is there any position where we DO see that strong of a link to wins? Again I absolutely think that Edge is some need then prob CB>DE>WR>OL>RB>S. But if the value isn't there elsewhere you can't tell me you'd be mad about having a potential Julio/Odell kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The problem isn't the first round pick on the blue chip wide receiver, though there is some opportunity cost that makes the math tough. The problem is the massive contract required to resign him after four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenrik Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 GB went from 21st to 20th over the bye. Team PCT SOS 1 CLE 0.000 0.503 2 SF 0.000 0.544 3 NYG 0.143 0.516 4 IND 0.250 0.489 5 TB 0.286 0.558 6 SD 0.375 0.507 7 CHI 0.375 0.516 8 OAK 0.375 0.538 9 NYJ 0.375 0.548 10 ARI 0.429 0.463 11 CIN 0.429 0.474 12 HOU 0.429 0.489 13 DET 0.429 0.490 14 DEN 0.429 0.507 15 WAS 0.429 0.527 16 BAL 0.500 0.453 17 TEN 0.571 0.436 18 JAX 0.571 0.445 19 DAL 0.571 0.489 20 GB 0.571 0.517 21 MIA 0.571 0.555 22 ATL 0.571 0.567 23 CAR 0.625 0.535 24 SEA 0.714 0.454 25 STL 0.714 0.474 26 BUF 0.714 0.512 27 NO 0.714 0.540 28 PIT 0.750 0.456 29 MIN 0.750 0.485 30 KC 0.750 0.498 31 NE 0.750 0.539 32 PHI 0.875 0.442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 hours ago, chillparsi1 said: I'm not saying we should go WR (would love one in the 2nd) if we are picking high, but for all the arguments talking about how teams picked WRs high and then didn't do much, I'm just curious, besides QB - is there any position where we DO see that strong of a link to wins? Again I absolutely think that Edge is some need then prob CB>DE>WR>OL>RB>S. But if the value isn't there elsewhere you can't tell me you'd be mad about having a potential Julio/Odell kind of guy. Just about all positions have really poor track record of 1st round pick being a Superbowl winner with the team that selected them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 MNF will determine if Im still going to be pissed after we lose games or go into let's draft Arden Key/Minkah Fitzpatrick/Derwin James mode. Who we'll probably need to be in the 6-10 range to have a shot at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 hours ago, chillparsi1 said: I'm not saying we should go WR (would love one in the 2nd) if we are picking high, but for all the arguments talking about how teams picked WRs high and then didn't do much, I'm just curious, besides QB - is there any position where we DO see that strong of a link to wins? Again I absolutely think that Edge is some need then prob CB>DE>WR>OL>RB>S. But if the value isn't there elsewhere you can't tell me you'd be mad about having a potential Julio/Odell kind of guy. Jamal Lewis - Won a Super Bowl as a rookie after rushing for 1300 yards in the season and 100 in the Super Bowl. Eli Manning - Won two Super Bowls. Reggie Bush - Helped Saints win Super Bowl. Von Miller - Super Bowl MVP. Those are out of all top 5 picks to win a Super Bowl since 2000. No top 5 receiver has ever won. So it suggests QB, RB and EDGE are more important at least. There are different reasons to pick a different position, too. If a receiver busts, they have no use whatsoever. If a left tackle busts, try him at guard. If a pass rusher busts, try him as a situational pass rusher. If a CB busts, try him in the slot or at safety. Except for the Ty Montgomery types, if a receiver busts, you've got a busted receiver. 15 minutes ago, squire12 said: Just about all positions have really poor track record of 1st round pick being a Superbowl winner with the team that selected them. Not true, especially when you consider that 15 quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl without being a first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 37 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: MNF will determine if Im still going to be pissed after we lose games or go into let's draft Arden Key/Minkah Fitzpatrick/Derwin James mode. Who we'll probably need to be in the 6-10 range to have a shot at. Did not realize we've got 15 days to prepare for our next opponent while our opponent played the Sunday night before. A home game, 15 days to prepare, players getting healthy after a full week off, the Lions... If we can't win this game, we won't have much hope of beating the Ravens, Steelers, Vikings, @Detroit, or Panthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 From 1998 to 2014 there have been 47 QB selected in the 1st round. 5 of them have won super bowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, squire12 said: From 1998 to 2014 there have been 47 QB selected in the 1st round. 5 of them have won super bowls There have only been 15 non-first round pick quarterbacks to win a Super Bowl. Also, QB is irrelevant to us unless we trade Rodgers, and if we trade Rodgers, we definitely shouldn't be drafting a receiver until we know we got our QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Good news is we won't have many people arguing for a first round RB this year. That was another one that bothered me last year, especially after people were upset AFTER the draft. Aaron Jones is the third ranked RB in the NFL according to PFF. Ripkowski is bottom 5. None of our offensive line are top 5 or bottom 5 except for Bakhtiari (top 5). King is the worst ranked cornerback. Yay. Kentrell Brice is the second to last ranked safety. None of our other players are top 5 or bottom 5 except for Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said: Good news is we won't have many people arguing for a first round RB this year. That was another one that bothered me last year, especially after people were upset AFTER the draft. Aaron Jones is the third ranked RB in the NFL according to PFF. Ripkowski is bottom 5. None of our offensive line are top 5 or bottom 5 except for Bakhtiari (top 5). King is the worst ranked cornerback. Yay. Kentrell Brice is the second to last ranked safety. None of our other players are top 5 or bottom 5 except for Rodgers. King is last? For real?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 27 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: King is last? For real?? PFF grading DBs is like letting your Home Ec teacher grade your math HW. They use the TV copy. Basically Brice could play M2M and King and everyone else cover 2 and since King is the one chasing the WR at the end of the play, he'll get docked in their rankings. Their OL/DL/QB/RB/LB stuff is pretty good, but to grade WRs and DBs you need coaches film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yeah, not gonna defend PFF or anything obviously, but surely a last place ranking doesn't mean you're doing great. Lattimore is the #1 CB by the way. Pretty clear that a top rookie can have a tremendous impact on a defense. Would love to get that kind of impact out of our first pick next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: PFF grading DBs is like letting your Home Ec teacher grade your math HW. They use the TV copy. Basically Brice could play M2M and King and everyone else cover 2 and since King is the one chasing the WR at the end of the play, he'll get docked in their rankings. Their OL/DL/QB/RB/LB stuff is pretty good, but to grade WRs and DBs you need coaches film. I think they use tv tape first, so it gets out fast then regrade after a22 is out. Pretty sure anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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