2018 NFL Draft Discussion

[CWood21]

10 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

Total curveball here.   So we look like we're going to be picking top ten.  This draft has Four first round QBs and 4-6 QBs who have nice skill sets to be developed.  Soooo.... After 25 years of stellar QB play do we even look at extending that streak with an investment in a first round pick?  I know there are more pressing needs now, but over the long run, is it an opportunity to grab a supremely talented QB to learn for three years under ARod and keep the Packers competitive for another dozen years?  There will be CBs and Edge players in second and third rounds avaiable. 

IF we went this way I would like Lamar Jackson- Louisville.

No, not a chance.  We have the highest pick we will likely have since 2009, and you want to use it on a QB who best case scenario we end up in a Jimmy G situation?

[CWood21]

5 hours ago, cooters22 said:

It's hard for me to discuss the draft because I hope and pray we scrap our defense and start over next year, which could involve going to a 4-3. But at the moment we need guys that can make plays and tackles. OMG I can't watch our LB play any more. Why can't we simply draft and address that position? And why don't we play more LB's on the field? And I agree with grabbing another WR in the 2nd or so round, we could use another young infusion at that position, assuming Cobb is gone. I think/fear Jordy's better days are behind him too. I hope I'm wrong there. 

Switch defensive schemes isn't going to magically fix our defense.  We need players, plain and simple.

[Dubz41]

3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

No, not a chance.  We have the highest pick we will likely have since 2009, and you want to use it on a QB who best case scenario we end up in a Jimmy G situation?

No, I just wanted to toss it around.  You're not going to like this, but we did this not too long ago and it worked like a f**king charm!  Why are we not even allowed to entertain the idea?

What if.....in two years we know we have the heir apparent and we are able to franchise Arod and get two first rounders for him?  Then Eliot Wolf or whoever is the GM has his QB AND the firepower to surround him with weapons, skilled weapons.

So what if I want to ensure that we have top notch QB play for another 12 years?  Doesn't seem like an impossible scenario to me.  Plus, with the hit'n'miss of TTs defensive drafting? There's no guarantee we would actually land a playmaker anyway. Gotcha there!

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

No, I just wanted to toss it around.  You're not going to like this, but we did this not too long ago and it worked like a f**king charm!  Why are we not even allowed to entertain the idea?

What if.....in two years we know we have the heir apparent and we are able to franchise Arod and get two first rounders for him?  Then Eliot Wolf or whoever is the GM has his QB AND the firepower to surround him with weapons, skilled weapons.

So what if I want to ensure that we have top notch QB play for another 12 years?  Doesn't seem like an impossible scenario to me.  Plus, with the hit'n'miss of TTs defensive drafting? There's no guarantee we would actually land a playmaker anyway. Gotcha there!

Brett Favre was 36 years old when the Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers, and had waffled on retirement for years.  Aaron Rodgers turns 34 years old in a couple of months, and has stated his desire to play for a while longer.  The whole drafting an heir apparent to Rodgers is at least 2-3 years down the road.

And what if they don't develop that QB?  We just sunk one of our highest picks in recent years into a position we need and end up getting nothing out of it.  A draft pick now is worth significantly more than a draft pick several years into the future.

[squire12]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Brett Favre was 36 years old when the Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers, and had waffled on retirement for years.  Aaron Rodgers turns 34 years old in a couple of months, and has stated his desire to play for a while longer.  The whole drafting an heir apparent to Rodgers is at least 2-3 years down the road.

And what if they don't develop that QB?  We just sunk one of our highest picks in recent years into a position we need and end up getting nothing out of it.  A draft pick now is worth significantly more than a draft pick several years into the future.

IF any player does not develop, you have sunk a high pick and get nothing out of it.   You can play that game at QB and also not think of it at any other position.

ROdgers can say he wants to play for 10 more years, but "father time" is the decider of that.  The time to draft the potential successor will come sooner than most think it should. 

There is also no guarantee that Rodgers will come back the same player after a fracture and surgery on his throwing shoulder.  He should, but nothing is guaranteed on that front.

[CWood21]

12 minutes ago, squire12 said:

IF any player does not develop, you have sunk a high pick and get nothing out of it.   You can play that game at QB and also not think of it at any other position.

ROdgers can say he wants to play for 10 more years, but "father time" is the decider of that.  The time to draft the potential successor will come sooner than most think it should. 

There is also no guarantee that Rodgers will come back the same player after a fracture and surgery on his throwing shoulder.  He should, but nothing is guaranteed on that front.

So...why would we not invest a pick into a position that is far more likely to help the Packers both now and in the future than something that at best helps us out in the future?  There really isn't any logical argument that puts the Packers in a position where it makes sense to take a QB.  Now if Darnold or Rosen slides into that 2nd round, would I entertain that?  Absolutely, but the concept of using a 1st round pick on a QB when there's no indication that a QB would play by the time his contract expires is mind boggling to me.

And you'll have to excuse me if I'm not going to entertain a hypothetical that has nothing to support it.  Until he shows he can't come back healthy from that broken collarbone, I'm going to assume he's going to come back healthy.

[squire12]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3332382/#!po=22.3214

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://medcraveonline.com/MOJOR/MOJOR-08-00298.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj45MmH1bDXAhVs7YMKHVbsCzkQFghKMAc&usg=AOvVaw0y8DCOetYpAGxqV0_V0pa2

[St Vince]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:18 PM, CWood21 said:

Too early to make any definitive opinions on the class.  From my early evals, here's my thoughts by position.

QB - Right now, Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold are all the top QBs in the class early on in my evaluation.  Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen both have tools to dream on, but both come with their fair share of concerns.  Baker Mayfield is trying to buck a bunch of different QB standards.  Beyond that, it's a standard class.  Overall, not a bad class but not one that doesn't have it's concerns.

RB - You have Saquon Barkley as the gem of the class, but Derrius Guice isn't far behind.  Not going to dig too far into it, since the Packers probably won't draft one high given the positional value and the play of Aaron Jones.

WR - No real stud WR in this class.  No Julio Jones.  No Amari Cooper.  But a solid overall class.  Should find starters into Day 2 of the draft.

TE - Mark Andrews is probably the gem of the class, assuming he declares.  A solid overall class.

OT - Not sure there's an elite pass protector in this class, but again a solid overall class.  Mike McGlinchey might be the best by default, but I'd take Ronnie Stanley over him.

IOL - Quinton Nelson and everyone else.

DL - Solid, no real studs unless you like Hurst in a 34 defense.  Wilkins is good, but just not sure it's going to be an impact position.

EDGE - Bradley Chubb, Arden Key, and Clelin Ferrell are the top EDGE in the class, but not sure Ferrell is a great fit in our defense.  Solid options after that too.

ILB - Probably like RB, just not a position they're going to draft high especially with Martinez playing well.

CB - Looks similar to the WR class.  Not sure there's a real true stud.

Great the year where we could potentially get a top 10 pick there's a bunch of dud's in the draft.This can only happen to the Packers.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, St Vince said:

Great the year where we could potentially get a top 10 pick there's a bunch of dud's in the draft.This can only happen to the Packers.

With the exception of the 2013 draft, all of the drafts have had talent and some where you least expected it.  It's all about evaluating and developing.

[Haha21]

Richard Rodgers is free agent after this season; Kendricks will be a free agent after the 2018 season. TE will be a need going forward, next season. I would love for us to draft Mark Andrews from Oklahoma. 

[chillparsi1]

Been thinking this for a while - and Cwood's post really re-inforces it. I'd love to see Ted go back to his ways of trading back and loading up the roster again. If we're sitting in the top 10, drop back just a few slots to pick up an extra second or third. Hearing that EDGE is one of the deeper positions at the top would love to see:

1 - EDGE, 2a - WR/TE, 2b - DL/OL, 3 - DB 

On a unrelated note, and as a homer, how do people feel about Ronald Jones II from USC. Not for the Packers, just curious where people see him going. Explosive, catches, with some power. I feel like he's a high 2nd at worst but definitely not one of the experts. 

[CWood21]

57 minutes ago, chillparsi1 said:

Been thinking this for a while - and Cwood's post really re-inforces it. I'd love to see Ted go back to his ways of trading back and loading up the roster again. If we're sitting in the top 10, drop back just a few slots to pick up an extra second or third. Hearing that EDGE is one of the deeper positions at the top would love to see:

1 - EDGE, 2a - WR/TE, 2b - DL/OL, 3 - DB 

On a unrelated note, and as a homer, how do people feel about Ronald Jones II from USC. Not for the Packers, just curious where people see him going. Explosive, catches, with some power. I feel like he's a high 2nd at worst but definitely not one of the experts. 

In theory, that seems like the smart answer but the practicality of it makes it exceedingly unlikely.  Assuming the Packers pick 10th, you're looking at trading down to the 18th pick in terms of the trade value chart.  Obviously, it's not a strict rule but more a general rule of thumb so figure a pick or two each way.  That means you're at best moving down from 10th to 18th, which can be a substantial drop depending on whose available.  If we're picking 18th, we're probably not getting a chance to select Arden Key or Bradley Chubb.

Which leads me into my next point, whose available at 10 (or wherever the Packers pick) could go a LONG way into determining the trade market for the pick.  If there's a top pick falling or one of the top QBs available, a market will inevitably be there.  But if a QB doesn't drop and/or a top prospect isn't there, you're probably not going to drum up much of a trade interest.  Assuming Cleveland goes back to AJ McCarron in the offseason, you can probably cross Cleveland and San Francisco off as teams no longer in the market for a QB.  The Giants are probably the first team looking at QBs, especially with news that their owner told them to start looking at QBs.  Tampa Bay (Jameis Winston), Indianapolis (Andrew Luck), Cincinnati (Andy Dalton), and Cleveland (AJ McCarron) aren't likely to look at QBs here, which means that San Diego currently slotted to pick 7th and Denver currently slotted to pick 8th are the next two teams potentially looking at QBs.  Both could be in the market for QBs here, as the Chargers need their heir apparent to Philip Rivers and Denver's musical chairs at QB currently has Brock Osweiler as their starting QB.  Chicago is next, and they're unlikely to take a QB.  Then you get into Baltimore, NY Jets, and Arizona as three teams currently ahead of the Packers who could be in the market for QBs as well.

[Packerraymond]

6 hours ago, St Vince said:

Great the year where we could potentially get a top 10 pick there's a bunch of dud's in the draft.This can only happen to the Packers.

It's a nice EDGE class. If we picked top 10, you'd have to get Chubb, Key or Fitzpatrick. I feel like any one of those 3 could be like adding rookie CMIII to the team back in 2009, didn't take long to win it all from there.

[MacReady]

Patriots just cut a third round defensive lineman.  Belichick is horrible at drafting.  How could a third round defensive lineman be a bust in this league?  Impossible. 

[RoellPreston88]

24 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Patriots just cut a third round defensive lineman.  Belichick is horrible at drafting.  How could a third round defensive lineman be a bust in this league?  Impossible. 

Don't be intentionally obtuse. 

The difference is BB replaces draft busts with a FA or a trade, not a UDFA like Ted.