Packers hire Mike Pettine as Defensive Coordinator

[Hands]

4 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

But then you have the 2015 Broncos who had every bit as bad as an offense as that group and still put up dominant defensive numbers. Peyton Manning was benched/injured 2/3 of the way through the season and had 9 TDs and 17 INTs at that point. The Broncos won a Super Bowl with Manning throwing 0 TDs and 1 INT and 141 yards in the Super Bowl. Good defense is good defense. I think he threw a pick six in like five consecutive games or something crazy like that. Mark Sanchez wasn't awful. He never threw more than 20 INTs as a starter with the Jets. He wasn't a super productive QB but he wasn't super turnover prone either. He had 26 TDs and 18 INTs in 2011. That's really not an excuse to be ranked 20th in scoring defense in 2011. I think the QB play that Pettine had from 2011-2013 with the Jets was much more competent than what we had this year with Hundley. Sanchez and Manuel were pretty much game managers that weren't terrible productive but they weren't turnover machines either. Pettine had a 20th ranked scoring defense in all three seasons. I really don't care about being Top 10 in overall defense if you are going to give up 22-24 PPG. Let's not forget we've had some seasons with Capers that were ranked just outside the Top 10 but we couldn't stop the good offenses from dropping 30-40+ points on us. I fear we are getting more of the same with Pettine. The Patriots put up at least 30 points on Pettine's Jets defense in 5 out of 8 games from 2009-2012 and at least once in each season he faced the Patriots. We can't forget Pettine also had a once in a generation player in Revis on his defense.

I care more about PPG allowed than overall defense. I really don't care if a defense gives up 280, 350, or 400 yards. At the end of the day its the point total that decides winners and losers. This is what the Patriots have been so good at over the years. They might not always have a Top 10 overall defense but they have been a Top 10 scoring defense in 12 out of the last 16 years with Brady as a starter. 2009 and 2010 were really good years for that Jets defense but they weren't all that great in 2011 and 2012. They were 20th in PPG allowed those seasons and gave up about 23 PPG. My cause for concern is that his track record mirrors that of Dom Capers. He had two really great years as DC of the Jets in 2009 and 2010 but then it fell off the rails in 2011-2012. It was similar in Buffalo in 2013. Top 10 in overall defense but again just 20th in scoring defense giving up 24 PPG. So basically the last 3 years of his track record as a DC is not really an improvement over what we had with Capers. He is literally Dom Capers vers. 2. I measure defenses by PPG and how many games they give up over 30 points in a season. His 2013 Bills defense gave up more than 30 points in 4 games. The 2012 Jets allowed 30 or more points in 3 games. The 2011 Jets allowed 30 or more points in 5 games. Again, I just don't see much of an improvement over Capers. Capers defenses were giving up 30 points 4-6 times a season. The way teams go 13-3 or better is to only 30 points once or twice in a season. Now Fangio on the other hand. His 49ers defense only allowed 30 or more points in three games total from 2011-2014. He was rebuilding the Bears defense from 2015-2017 and the Bears only allowed 30 points in 9 games during that stretch. I just think Vic Fangio is a better option. I hope I'm wrong and Pettine can come in here and get this ship turned around and lead us to Top 10 rankings in overall and scoring defense. I just haven't really seen Pettine outside his comfort zone to feel super good about this hire. He was the DC under his mentor for his entire tenure as a DC. Guys like Fangio and Bradley have proven they can get it done in different atmospheres and with different personnel. We'll see.     

Frankly, I don't think Fangio and Bradley wanted the job so it fell to Pettine. Look it was the same thing when MM hired Capers. He interviewed several guys, they turned him down and he got Capers. I think in this case Pettine is better for the Packers because of his philosophy of using sub-Defenses a lot. He's not a 4-3 or 3-4 guy, but a guy who will pull a psycho package when needed.

[incognito_man]

4 minutes ago, Hands said:

Frankly, I don't think Fangio and Bradley wanted the job so it fell to Pettine. Look it was the same thing when MM hired Capers. He interviewed several guys, they turned him down and he got Capers. I think in this case Pettine is better for the Packers because of his philosophy of using sub-Defenses a lot. He's not a 4-3 or 3-4 guy, but a guy who will pull a psycho package when needed.

what are you basing your assumption that nobody but Capers and Pettine wanted the jobs?

Why did Bradley and Fangio not sign immediately if they weren't interested in GBs position?

[WaitWhat]

Not seeing much of an improvement and calling him Capers 2.0. Get ******* lasik surgery. 

This type of brain dead simpleton “analysis” is mind numbing to read. 

[WaitWhat]

Oh and “but lots of PPGZ against the Patriots” - Patriots, like the Packers with healthy Rodgers, do that to teams. The almighty Dan Quinn lead Falcons just blew a 25 point lead in one half in the Super Bowl last year to New England. Fire that bum already. 

[incognito_man]

i'll take back my hard pass and give some props to @cooters22 for the point(s) last night about HC vs DC

[Gopackgonerd]

You're a fool if you think this is a bad move because he came from the Brownies. Guys resume is impressive, I'm excited about change from the outside. Can't wait to see what Pettine does.

[strat1080]

1 hour ago, Slinky said:

Let's be honest. If we hired Fangio over Pettine, everybody who's saying Pettine was the better choice right now would be saying Fangio was the best choice. 

It's a matter of what the numbers say. With Pettine we have a 5 year stint as DC with the Jets and Bills with 2 Top 10 ranked scoring defenses. With Fangio we have a 7 year stretch as DC with the 49ers and Bears with 5 seasons ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. So we have 2 out of 5 seasons with a Top 10 ranked scoring defense for Pettine and 5 out of 7 seasons with a Top 10 ranked scoring defense for Fangio. I hear a lot of excuses about the QB play with the Jets and Bills when Pettine was DC. Its not like the Bears QBs were lighting the world on fire last year yet Fangio's defense ranked in the Top 10 in yards allowed and points allowed. Fangio completely rebuilt that Bears defense starting in 2015. The 2014 Bears were 31st in points allowed. I just flat out think Fangio was more qualified and had a more established track record. I think he's a safer bet to bet the remainder of Aaron Rodgers career on. Our window is closing. We need to get this decision right. I just think Fangio was the more proven and established guy. Who knows. Maybe he just wanted to stay in Chicago.  

[strat1080]

38 minutes ago, Hands said:

Frankly, I don't think Fangio and Bradley wanted the job so it fell to Pettine. Look it was the same thing when MM hired Capers. He interviewed several guys, they turned him down and he got Capers. I think in this case Pettine is better for the Packers because of his philosophy of using sub-Defenses a lot. He's not a 4-3 or 3-4 guy, but a guy who will pull a psycho package when needed.

I am in agreement. I think Fangio was probably lukewarm about moving if Nagy made a push to keep Fangio. He probably just wanted to stay put since he was already familiar with the personnel and built up that Bears defense into a respectable unit. That Bears defense is turning into a legit unit. If the Bears ever put an offense together they are going to be tough to handle.

[strat1080]

30 minutes ago, WaitWhat said:

Not seeing much of an improvement and calling him Capers 2.0. Get ******* lasik surgery. 

This type of brain dead simpleton “analysis” is mind numbing to read. 

His last 3 defenses were ranked 20th in scoring defense. That's Capers 2.0.

[FAH1223]

 

 

[chillparsi1]

17 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

His last 3 defenses were ranked 20th in scoring defense. That's Capers 2.0.

Are you including his Browns days in that?

Also I'm curious - do you think this is a bad hire or just not the best we could have done? Essentially if Fangio had been unavailable, lets say he'd been hired as an HC somewhere, how would you feel about this?

[incognito_man]

Just now, chillparsi1 said:

Are you including his Browns days in that?

Also I'm curious - do you think this is a bad hire or just not the best we could have done? Essentially if Fangio had been unavailable, lets say he'd been hired as an HC somewhere, how would you feel about this?

he's counting BUF and CLE, yes

[chillparsi1]

3 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

he's counting BUF and CLE, yes

Thanks. I'm not sure how much I read into Cle days - never know how the HC vs coordinator dynamic shakes out. Of course by that token you could ask whether any of Pettine's success has been his vs. Rex Ryan's. 

We have what we have, it seems like a pretty good call to me at least. Now we just gotta watch. Still feel like edge is easily #1 priority. From what I'm gathering it doesnt look like 3-4 vs 4-3 is a big deal so lets go hunt down the best QB hunter we can!

[HyponGrey]

This move is a bit lackluster to me. Feel he underachieved with that Bills D, and just overall bleh on the guy. Feels like the kind of shouty guy I tend to ignore and have never been high on. Not really sure who I would've wanted over him though.

[strat1080]

30 minutes ago, WaitWhat said:

Oh and “but lots of PPGZ against the Patriots” - Patriots, like the Packers with healthy Rodgers, do that to teams. The almighty Dan Quinn lead Falcons just blew a 25 point lead in one half in the Super Bowl last year to New England. Fire that bum already. 

Somehow the Jets 22nd ranked scoring defense kept New England under 30 points in both games this year. Something Pettine was never able to do in a single season as DC for the Jets with a pretty good defensive roster and a once in a generation player at corner. That is what I care about. How do you fare against the good offenses. The Patriots average around 30 points per game. Its not like they steadily score 30 points every game. Some of those games they score 40 points. They score 20 points in others. Its not impossible to limit the Patriots to under 30 points. The Steelers have a good track record of keeping the Patriots under 30 points. They've done so the last 3 times they've faced them. That to me is what it's all about. Not having a nice defensive ranking but then giving up 30-40 points when you play legit offenses. Tom Brady gets held under 30 points in roughly half the games he plays each year. You aren't a great defense or defensive coordinator if you can't keep him under 30 points half the time. You are basically an average scoring defense. That is what Dom Capers was and this what Pettine was. An average scoring defense. Pettine's last 3 defenses were ranked #20 in points allowed. I don't want to hear excuses about poor QB play. The Bears QBs were awful this year and Fangio led them to Top 10 rankings in overall and scoring defense. If you're a good defense you're a good defense. The 2015 Broncos had a horrible offense. Peyton Manning was throwing pick sixes left and right that year. Its a two edged sword with that argument. Many people say the same thing about having a really good offense that puts up points. Defensive rankings tend to take a hit because you are playing with a lead. It doesn't work both ways. We can't say defensive rankings are bad because the offense is bad yet at the same time argue the opposite that a defensive ranking is bad because the offense is scoring points. That was the excuse many times for the point totals given up by Capers defenses. "Well the offense is scoring so much that we are playing a prevent D". It can't work both ways.