BroncoBruin Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I figured we were likely to get another year of bad RT play as there just isn’t a market for upgrades without breaking the bank, but if Turner is the solution that is hilarious. It just screams “screw it, we’re going to suck at this position no matter what we do, this guy is cheap and we know him”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 This franchise is becoming a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Counselor said: This franchise is becoming a joke Because the signed a backup o lineman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Jason Peters will be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said: Because the signed a backup o lineman? I mean, it’s hard to argue Elway hasn’t botched things spectactularly and repeatedly since the SB win. Gotta crush the next two drafts or the team will be bad for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Counselor said: This franchise is becoming a joke 1 hour ago, DiehardBronxFan said: Because the signed a backup o lineman? 1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said: I mean, it’s hard to argue Elway hasn’t botched things spectactularly and repeatedly since the SB win. Gotta crush the next two drafts or the team will be bad for a while. Joke is too strong - but there is no good reason to sign Billy Taylor even at league minimum. He’s a known commodity who’s awful. With zero room for growth. Familiarity is the only thing in his favor. But he gives us no chance to compete if he has to play. But he also has no chance to get better. It’s not like he’s young or was coming off injury. He’s literally JAG. That’s a waste of a roster spot. A guy like Barbre at least was serviceable at G (not at T) and was versatile. Taylor offers nothing. That’s the issue. No versatility no upside and not good when he has to play. It’s disheartening to see especually in the context of the Todd Davis signing. We are signing up for the same roster talent that wasn’t good enough the last 2 years. But who are only older. That usually ends very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said: I mean, it’s hard to argue Elway hasn’t botched things spectactularly and repeatedly since the SB win. Gotta crush the next two drafts or the team will be bad for a while. Eh. Mistakes? Sure. Mostly really lousy day 2 Drafting the past few years. And that bugaboo of no quarterback - a problem half the league shares, some for decades. But I live in New York and get to listen to the Jets and Bills all the time. If you’re looking for dumpster fires over the course of the past few decades.....then we could throw in the Dolphins, the Browns, the Bears, the Redskins, heck the Giants... when was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game? This list goes on. How many years over the past 3 or 4 decades have the Broncos had a losing season? Broncos Fans ( 8ncluding myself) are spoiled with unrealistically high expectations. But certainly agree. If Elway expects to right the ship, he’s gotta start hitting on drafts, especially the first 2 days. With all the early picks, this year, this draft is going to be HUGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just curious if anyone knows the terms of the contract for Turner. I'd guess it's league minimum with no guarantees. In short, training camp fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Just curious if anyone knows the terms of the contract for Turner. I'd guess it's league minimum with no guarantees. In short, training camp fodder. As far as I know, there’s nothing complete yet, just the tweet from Klis that they are talking to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 44 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said: Eh. Mistakes? Sure. Mostly really lousy day 2 Drafting the past few years. And that bugaboo of no quarterback - a problem half the league shares, some for decades. But I live in New York and get to listen to the Jets and Bills all the time. If you’re looking for dumpster fires over the course of the past few decades.....then we could throw in the Dolphins, the Browns, the Bears, the Redskins, heck the Giants... when was the last time the Cowboys won a playoff game? This list goes on. How many years over the past 3 or 4 decades have the Broncos had a losing season? Broncos Fans ( 8ncluding myself) are spoiled with unrealistically high expectations. But certainly agree. If Elway expects to right the ship, he’s gotta start hitting on drafts, especially the first 2 days. With all the early picks, this year, this draft is going to be HUGE. Entirely fair take - as an equally fair counter, we said the exact same thing about the draft last year - and while we need a 2nd year to really determine the impact, well, Year 1 was a disaster. Let's be brutally honest and recognize Elway's draft returns have been diminishing since 2014. It's no coincidence it's when we became contenders, Elway added need-based decisions for good reason at that time. They just don't make near as much sense as they do now. I see the same problem in how Elway's tackling FA now. Your point about losing seasons brings a double-edged sword - trying to avoid a losing season isn't a good goal if the best-case scenario is 8-8. That's the danger in citing losing seasons. What you see as being spoiled, I would counter as better organizational planning - either you have a legit shot at 10W, or you don't throw more resources into the current year, but instead invest in guys who help now, but have potential to be better later, and preserve future cap health - even if they're not as safe as the guy who can help a little more now, but has no hope of being better (and worse, require committing more cap resources to be thrown at an attempt to overcome our talent poor roster). The former approach is how you find the Darian Stewarts and even the Shelby Millers of the NFL, and eventually climb back to sustainable contention. The latter is how your team becomes so talent-poor as we now find ourselves, and cap-poor as we're about to be in 2019 (bottom 10 if we keep Keenum despite anticipated cuts of either DT or Sanders, Wolfe, Marshall, and maybe Leary if he starts to decline, or keep them all with Keenum - and then we're a bottom 3 cap team in 2019). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Entirely fair take - as an equally fair counter, we said the exact same thing about the draft last year - and while we need a 2nd year to really determine the impact, well, Year 1 was a disaster. Let's be brutally honest and recognize Elway's draft returns have been diminishing since 2014. It's no coincidence it's when we became contenders, Elway added need-based decisions for good reason at that time. They just don't make near as much sense as they do now. I see the same problem in how Elway's tackling FA now. Your point about losing seasons brings a double-edged sword - trying to avoid a losing season isn't a good goal if the best-case scenario is 8-8. That's the danger in citing losing seasons. What you see as being spoiled, I would counter as better organizational planning - either you have a legit shot at 10W, or you don't throw more resources into the current year, but instead invest in guys who help now, but have potential to be better later, and preserve future cap health - even if they're not as safe as the guy who can help a little more now, but has no hope of being better (and worse, require committing more cap resources to be thrown at an attempt to overcome our talent poor roster). The former approach is how you find the Darian Stewarts and even the Shelby Millers of the NFL, and eventually climb back to sustainable contention. The latter is how your team becomes so talent-poor as we now find ourselves, and cap-poor as we're about to be in 2019 (bottom 10 if we keep Keenum despite anticipated cuts of either DT or Sanders, Wolfe, Marshall, and maybe Leary if he starts to decline, or keep them all with Keenum - and then we're a bottom 3 cap team in 2019). You make lots of good points. And yet somehow Denver, of all teams, has managed to avoid back to back losing seasons for - well, for a very long time. And one of the top winning percentages in the league over the past 30 years. So, they’ve found a way to do it without taking the tanking path. And let’s not forget Shanny’s draft challenges. But again, we’re all pretty much in agreement. It’s been a rough couple years for Elway. The last few drafts haven’t been great. I still have some hope for last year. Bolles could be a starter for years, need to see how Walker does with some development and movement back to his right position. Nobody should make any judgements on Carlos yet. Same on Butt. I’m really anxious to see what D’Angelo can do. And of course, judging by several folks on this very forum, we got our QBOTF in Kelly last year? Hopefully, Elway has learned his lesson and we’ll get back to more productive drafts, starting this year. i just find it ridiculous when fall into the trap of calling one of the best franchises in the NFL over the past 30years “a joke”because their is discussion of them singing a back up OL, which is unconfirmed and for which we know NOTHING about what the contract is. The success of this team will NOT hinge on the signing of Billy Turner, for better or Worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said: You make lots of good points. And yet somehow Denver, of all teams, has managed to avoid back to back losing seasons for - well, for a very long time. And one of the top winning percentages in the league over the past 30 years. So, they’ve found a way to do it without taking the tanking path. And let’s not forget Shanny’s draft challenges. But again, we’re all pretty much in agreement. It’s been a rough couple years for Elway. The last few drafts haven’t been great. I still have some hope for last year. Bolles could be a starter for years, need to see how Walker does with some development and movement back to his right position. Nobody should make any judgements on Carlos yet. Same on Butt. I’m really anxious to see what D’Angelo can do. And of course, judging by several folks on this very forum, we got our QBOTF in Kelly last year? Hopefully, Elway has learned his lesson and we’ll get back to more productive drafts, starting this year. i just find it ridiculous when fall into the trap of calling one of the best franchises in the NFL over the past 30years “a joke”because their is discussion of them singing a back up OL, which is unconfirmed and for which we know NOTHING about what the contract is. The success of this team will NOT hinge on the signing of Billy Turner, for better or Worse. We're pretty much agreed. FWIW, I said it before but it bears repeating - yes, "joke" is way too strong. One thing I'd ask you to consider - even if it's a vet min deal, Turner is a bad decision. We can't lose $ over it - but we're giving a roster spot and practice reps to a guy with no hope of helping us long-term - and he's not even a good backup now. There's an opportunity cost - we should be giving someone else that chance. Even if that guy is less known than Taylor to DEN. Familiarity isn't a good enough reason for the 52nd guy on our roster to be there, not when we are this talent-poor. Talent-poor means we should be mining every chance to find a higher-ceiling result than the status quo guys. The end result isn't my problem - it's the thinking process behind that decision. Improve the process, better decisions happen. I truly believe the only way Elway will improve the draft is if he embraces overall BPA early again. He's always been a sucker for the all-tools-no-skills Day 2 guys. It's the needs-based drafting that has really hurt us in addition to Day 2 busts (that's because he doesn't value football skills enough on Day 2, but that's another story for another thread lol). But going away from needs-based drafting means he can't be thinking win-now-at-all-costs. That's the iffy part IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I said becoming a joke. Which in my opinion is true. Todd Davis resigned, Billy Turner resigned, money pushed into the future on Von’s contract, that money being used poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 You need help with reading comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 56 minutes ago, Counselor said: You need help with reading comprehension. Perhaps you can educate me? So if I were to say this conversation is becoming a joke, you wouldn’t be offended, but if I say it is a joke, that’s materially different? Seems like a pretty fine nuance for a Football message board, but if that is the standard we are all going to hold ourselves to, I will endeavor to do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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