2018 Free Agency Discussion Thread

[jsthomp2007]

5 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I thought Mr. B was still well when Ellis hired the child.

I think you are just beating a dead pig.  

[AnAngryAmerican]

4 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

I thought Mr. B was still well when Ellis hired the child.

He had been slipping for a while and the franchise kept it under wraps. In Mr. B's last interview, to Woody Paige in 2009, he said he had been suffering from "memory loss" for a few years. I heard from a very well-connected media person, that he had been slipping since about 2006 and that Ellis had been taking over more and more behind the scenes. Bowlen didn't even interview Mac, it was Ellis who flew to Boston to talk to him. Once he was Ellis' choice, he flew to Denver for a quick sit-down with Mr. B who signed off on Ellis' choice. 

[BaldyBronco]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

He had been slipping for a while and the franchise kept it under wraps. In Mr. B's last interview, to Woody Paige in 2009, he said he had been suffering from "memory loss" for a few years. I heard from a very well-connected media person, that he had been slipping since about 2006 and that Ellis had been taking over more and more behind the scenes. Bowlen didn't even interview Mac, it was Ellis who flew to Boston to talk to him. Once he was Ellis' choice, he flew to Denver for a quick sit-down with Mr. B who signed off on Ellis' choice. 

His Elway HOF Induction speech in 2004 had huge hints of his health.  I remember ignorantly at first thinking he was drunk, and it became clear later that it was early issues he was dealing with

[broncos67]

Deonte Thompson would not be that bad of a signing. I know it's easy to hate on that one, but he actually had a very solid string of games with BUF when he moved to starter. He's got speed and abilities to stretch the field that we lack today.

[paul-mac]

Jordan Matthews still out there as well for a potential prove it deal. 

[BaldyBronco]

SO Su' wa Cravens just signed with Denver based Peter Schaffer according to Troy Renck.   If you look at Su'wa's Social Media there are Bronco fingerprints all over them.

I am more and more convinced that we are moving aggressively to get this deal done.

Looking for opinions on what you all think it will take to get him here?

The Redskins don't have a ton of depth at RB.  I have two scenarios I am working through and would appreciate opinions on others or if you think I am off base

#1. CJ and a late round pick (5.142)

#2. 4.106

#3. ???

[BroncoBruin]

I just wouldn’t give up any Day 2 picks but I have confidence he’s going to be an awesome player so any Day 3 pick I’d be willing to part with. If I’m not mistaken, missing 2017 means we could hold onto him for cheap for three years with a 2nd round RFA tender in 2020. He’d be such a weapon for the defense. Yes please.

[thebestever6]

27 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

SO Su' wa Cravens just signed with Denver based Peter Schaffer according to Troy Renck.   If you look at Su'wa's Social Media there are Bronco fingerprints all over them.

I am more and more convinced that we are moving aggressively to get this deal done.

Looking for opinions on what you all think it will take to get him here?

The Redskins don't have a ton of depth at RB.  I have two scenarios I am working through and would appreciate opinions on others or if you think I am off base

#1. CJ and a late round pick (5.142)

#2. 4.106

#3. ???

I think cj and a 6 would get it done.  They have an older tackle who was money filling in. I'd love to get him as well.

[BaldyBronco]

13 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I just wouldn’t give up any Day 2 picks but I have confidence he’s going to be an awesome player so any Day 3 pick I’d be willing to part with. If I’m not mistaken, missing 2017 means we could hold onto him for cheap for three years with a 2nd round RFA tender in 2020. He’d be such a weapon for the defense. Yes please.

It seems like Josh Norman owns that locker room and he sorta go kicked out of the cool guy club.  This seems to be building momentum.

[Broncofan]

Re: Cravens I wrote this on March 1, so might as well repeat it lol...now, one important qualifier that @BroncoBruin mentioned - because he was placed on the NFI list, we'd get 3 years, not 2 years of rookie deal left.   So that's probably worth the 5th round pick as a standalone - I would not trade the 4th, they are so early at 106 & 109, Cravens' risk is too high - remember, he's not just a concussion risk, but also a real Q mark on his desire, having left the team.   And again, we'd have to use him in a very specific situation and role - and nothing from our decisions last year showed we are capable of doing it.

The other part - WAS is looking to part ways.  That should work in our favor.  Hold out for a 5th or later, Elway.  

 

 

On 3/1/2018 at 3:10 PM, Broncofan said:

A couple of observations on Cravens and our potential price tag:

1.  Cravens "retired" on WAS, after missing time with a concussion.   

2.  While he's had the skill in the past, desire and stability are his biggest Q's.  So much so that WAS put him on the "retired/NFI" list.    So they were willing to part ways.

3.  Cravens might have been a 2nd round pick, but now he's a 2nd round pick who's failed to live up to that potential for 2 years - and more importantly, only has 2 years left on his cheap rookie deal.   The reason why guys go that early are their ceiling, but also you're factoring in the potential for 3-4 years of cheap production along with that, and in theory (although Elway ignores it each year lol), 2nd rounders usually come with a floor of production.  With Cravens, there's no safe floor.

The WAS fans already mentioned that they don't expect a huge return - I agree he'd fill a need, but he wouldn't be a lock to be our coverage LB solution as a LB/S hybrid player (and no, I don't think he'd be replacing Stewart outright) - but we'd also be making the assumption that our DC's / coaches would use him properly - when we had 3 S's to use similarly instead of rolling brutal coverage LB's in clear passing-but-not-nickel formations.    Given how bad our LB's were in coverage, our inability to get 3 S's out more to use one as a hybrid, well, I'd love to think we'd do it, but I need to see us convert to more innovative thinking before assuming that's a given.  If we're getting him to replace Stewart, it won't likely work out nearly as well as fitting him into our coverage LB roles.

All of which to say - I'd be happy to get Cravens - if it's at flyer prices.  5th/6th (or better yet, conditional 5th-7th) would be the right price.   There isn't just a risk of career-ending injury (concussion risk), but also a huge Q on his desire, and no safe floor of playing production, either.  Physical tools, yes.  But given all the risk, anything more than a 5th is a huge overpay (and that might still be an overpay at a locked in 5th rounder, frankly speaking).

[BaldyBronco]

42 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Re: Cravens I wrote this on March 1, so might as well repeat it lol...now, one important qualifier that @BroncoBruin mentioned - because he was placed on the NFI list, we'd get 3 years, not 2 years of rookie deal left.   So that's probably worth the 5th round pick as a standalone - I would not trade the 4th, they are so early at 106 & 109, Cravens' risk is too high - remember, he's not just a concussion risk, but also a real Q mark on his desire, having left the team.   And again, we'd have to use him in a very specific situation and role - and nothing from our decisions last year showed we are capable of doing it.

The other part - WAS is looking to part ways.  That should work in our favor.  Hold out for a 5th or later, Elway.  

 

 

All this is so true, and I agree with all of it.  The cypher for me is that Peter signed him.  Peter does not mess around.  He will pass on a guy if he believes he is not serious.  I think he can help thi kid understand what it takes.  If some of this can be attributed to immaturity, it may well be a steal.  And Peter knows how to negotiate and if Cravens comes in for a year and plays well.  He will fight hard to get him a new deal.  Low risk trade at that price in my opinion.

[paul-mac]

Is Cravens really any better than Will Parks who is the current occupant of the big S/LB dime hybrid role? I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Su'a Cravens in to camp to compete with Parks. I actually think we wanted him in the 2nd round in 2016 but he got taken before our pick so we ended up settling for Adam Gotsis and then drafting a similar player in Parks later in the same draft. But ultimately I'm not sure there's really room for two guys who play the exact same niche role on the 53 man roster so if you bring Cravens in then you're essentially admitting two things

 

A. He isn't guaranteed to even make the 53

B. If he does it means you're cutting a young talented 6th round guy who's outplayed his draft position and made some nice plays

 

For that reason, I'm not opposed to bringing Cravens in but really only if the cost is absolutely minimal. I wouldn't really do anything more than a ham sandwich trade like Cravens and a 7th for our 6th or something along those lines?

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

Is Cravens really any better than Will Parks who is the current occupant of the big S/LB dime hybrid role? I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Su'a Cravens in to camp to compete with Parks. I actually think we wanted him in the 2nd round in 2016 but he got taken before our pick so we ended up settling for Adam Gotsis and then drafting a similar player in Parks later in the same draft. But ultimately I'm not sure there's really room for two guys who play the exact same niche role on the 53 man roster so if you bring Cravens in then you're essentially admitting two things

 

A. He isn't guaranteed to even make the 53

B. If he does it means you're cutting a young talented 6th round guy who's outplayed his draft position and made some nice plays

 

For that reason, I'm not opposed to bringing Cravens in but really only if the cost is absolutely minimal. I wouldn't really do anything more than a ham sandwich trade like Cravens and a 7th for our 6th or something along those lines?

You've touched on the issue that I see with Cravens - can we use him creatively?   Ideally, you're using him as a TE-covering S/ILB hybrid.   Thing is, we should have been doing that with Parks last year...and instead, we had Todd Davis out there getting beaten like a drum.    I don't know that our D coaches would deploy him properly, because I'd envision him on the field with Parks/Simmons in the future when Stewart isn't with us (either 2019, 2020 by latest - Stewart is still our best S, but his play did take a dip, part of it being SS rather than FS, but he also lost a half-step, and he will be 30 after this year...and players start to slip, well, we know the decline phase can come quickly).  

[BroncoBruin]

24 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

Is Cravens really any better than Will Parks who is the current occupant of the big S/LB dime hybrid role? I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Su'a Cravens in to camp to compete with Parks. I actually think we wanted him in the 2nd round in 2016 but he got taken before our pick so we ended up settling for Adam Gotsis and then drafting a similar player in Parks later in the same draft. But ultimately I'm not sure there's really room for two guys who play the exact same niche role on the 53 man roster so if you bring Cravens in then you're essentially admitting two things

 

A. He isn't guaranteed to even make the 53

B. If he does it means you're cutting a young talented 6th round guy who's outplayed his draft position and made some nice plays

 

For that reason, I'm not opposed to bringing Cravens in but really only if the cost is absolutely minimal. I wouldn't really do anything more than a ham sandwich trade like Cravens and a 7th for our 6th or something along those lines?

Will Parks is JAG. good depth but a weak link on a good defense when starting. Su'a is a much better player. 

[paul-mac]

28 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

You've touched on the issue that I see with Cravens - can we use him creatively?   Ideally, you're using him as a TE-covering S/ILB hybrid.   Thing is, we should have been doing that with Parks last year...and instead, we had Todd Davis out there getting beaten like a drum.    I don't know that our D coaches would deploy him properly, because I'd envision him on the field with Parks/Simmons in the future when Stewart isn't with us (either 2019, 2020 by latest - Stewart is still our best S, but his play did take a dip, part of it being SS rather than FS, but he also lost a half-step, and he will be 30 after this year...and players start to slip, well, we know the decline phase can come quickly).  

 

To be fair, Parks has been playing the S/LB hybrid but it's possible they view him as a pure SS when Darian moves on. So we could see a future lineup of Simmons as FS, Parks as SS and Cravens in the S/LB dime hybrid.