The Gnat Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I went with no, because of Jordan. I don't like Jordan, but as a player it's impossible to deny what he did in the NBA. Add in the fact that the NBA is more of an individual sport than the NFL is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, The Gnat said: I went with no, because of Jordan. I don't like Jordan, but as a player it's impossible to deny what he did in the NBA. Add in the fact that the NBA is more of an individual sport than the NFL is. Wouldn't that make it harder for you to stand out then? In football. Since you'd be more so dependant on factors out of your control (coaches, players, different side of the ball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gnat Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Yes, it would, but I'm not sure that he's stood out that much beyond a player like Manning/Favre. So many of the stats are built off of a team that causes the QB's to have better stats. In the NBA a single player truly takes over a game compared to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Era's a big part of Jordan's legend. He wouldn't stand out further from Bird and Magic anymore than Brady to Manning/Favre. Even in the era after he wouldn't stand out much from Kobe/Lebron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, lancerman said: Era's a big part of Jordan's legend. He wouldn't stand out further from Bird and Magic anymore than Brady to Manning/Favre. Even in the era after he wouldn't stand out much from Kobe/Lebron. Michael Jordan is easily a better player than Kobe Bryant. It's not even close. LeBron James is far closer and an argument can be made for him; however, his Final's record really hurts his case a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, showtime said: Michael Jordan is easily a better player than Kobe Bryant. It's not even close. LeBron James is far closer and an argument can be made for him; however, his Final's record really hurts his case a lot. I could substitute a lot of the words in your sentence to make my point. Tom Brady is easily a better player than Brett Favre. It's not even close. Peyton Manning is far closer and an argument can be made for him; however, his Final's record really hurts his case a lot. My point is to discredit Michael. My point is that a lot of people apply qualifiers to Brady that similarly apply to Michael Jordan and then don't acknowledge it. Jordan had a great coach, Jordan had a great team, in the grand scheme of things their are several players with better stats in one area or another and their are some players who were better physical athletes than him. Both still have better resumes than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, lancerman said: My point is that a lot of people apply qualifiers to Brady that similarly apply to Michael Jordan and then don't acknowledge it. Football is more of a team sport than basketball is. I read some random stat that the Patriots average time of possession this season was 30 minutes. If that's true, Tom Brady isn't even playing the game half of the time. Also, I don't ever recall Michael Jordan getting accused of cheating. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, showtime said: Football is more of a team sport than basketball is. I read some random stat that the Patriots average time of possession this season was 30 minutes. If that's true, Tom Brady isn't even playing the game half of the time. Also, I don't ever recall Michael Jordan getting accused of cheating. Do you? So I took your point. Refuted it by saying similar qualifiers exist for Jordan and proved it.... and in response you got defensive and moved to a completely separate argument that wasn't relevant to the point at all. But to address your points. QB is far and away the most important position in football. You need points to win. 99% of the time you score points on offense. The QB is the only player who touches the ball on every offensive player. A QB is the only player that calls out audibles and adjustments on every offensive play. Just off virtue of that the player has far more control of the offense. Jordan might not even touch the ball in some offensive series. Traditionally in the NFL wins and championships correlate a lot higher with average QB play. Not that the line of discussion we were going down even merited me addressing that point because it had nothing whatsoever to do with the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Only way I would accept an NFL player as the greatest sports athlete is if they had Brady's postseason dominance coupled with Barry Sanders level regular season consistent dominance where your entire career you are either the best or debatable as the best in the entire league. I can't put Brady over any player like Jordan who had to be a great 2 way player and if he was lackluster during any point of championship he could just lean on 25 other people to keep the game competitive. Not to mention 7 game series makes winning championships far less susceptible to fluke victories and losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 The mind warping going on in trying to compare basketball as a team sport to that of football is mesmerizing and entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said: The mind warping going on in trying to compare basketball as a team sport to that of football is mesmerizing and entertaining. It's not, but it's a team sport, and Jordan was subjected to just as much influence from the pieces around him. He shouldn't even rank if you compare him to Phelps or Ali. Again my point is the illegitimate arguments. Well Brady's had great teams? Jordan's had great teams. Well Brady had a great coach? Jordan had a great coach and his coach won 5 titles without him (which is 5 more titles than Belichick without Brady) Well Brady doesn't own all the stat records yet? Neither does Jordan, in fact Wilt generally laps him. Well there's other QB's close to Brady? No closer than Kobe, Lebron, Wilt, and Magic are to Jordan. If those are strikes against Brady, then they are strikes against Jordan, and then put Gretzky or Ali or Phelps or whoever ahead of Jordan. They myth behind Jordan is greater than the reality nowadays and it's kind of funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, lancerman said: They myth behind Jordan is greater than the reality nowadays and it's kind of funny. Not as funny as those who try to detract from his greatness but never watched him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, Carmen Cygni said: Not as funny as those who try to detract from his greatness but never watched him play. Yawn... I watched Jordan. He was my favorite athlete as a kid. Aside from Boston sports I was like every other kid who idolized Jordan, in fact in the 90's I had more Chicago Bulls gear than Patriots gear. However, I watched Lebron too. Lebron is a better athlete and a bigger difference maker to his teams than Jordan was. Lebron played stiffer competition than Jordan in most of Finals, Lebron played on worse teams in ALL of his finals. Jordan never played a super team in a final. Lebron never had the coaching excellence or consistency that Jordan had. Lebron's teams fell completely apart when he left them and became league worst teams. Jordan's team was still good when he took a year off it took Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Phil Jackson leaving the same year to dismantle the Chicago Bulls. If Lebron left the Cavs and everyone else stayed they'd be a losing team. Feel free to try to dispute anything I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, lancerman said: So I took your point. Refuted it by saying similar qualifiers exist for Jordan and proved it.... and in response you got defensive and moved to a completely separate argument that wasn't relevant to the point at all. But to address your points. QB is far and away the most important position in football. You need points to win. 99% of the time you score points on offense. The QB is the only player who touches the ball on every offensive player. A QB is the only player that calls out audibles and adjustments on every offensive play. Just off virtue of that the player has far more control of the offense. Jordan might not even touch the ball in some offensive series. Traditionally in the NFL wins and championships correlate a lot higher with average QB play. Not that the line of discussion we were going down even merited me addressing that point because it had nothing whatsoever to do with the argument. How in the heck did I get defensive? I just brought up some other points because your point about Peyton Manning was good. QB is the most important position in football... a game that is way more team orientated than basketball is. I haven't read a bunch of post in this thread, but the title is asking if Brady wins another Super Bowl would he be considered the greatest athlete ever and the answer is no. Plus, according to the thread title and what this thread is actually about, how can we not bring up Brady's cheating? Look at some of the guys who are consensus top athletes of all-time: Jordan, Ali, Gretzky. I don't recall any cheating allegations against any of them. Therefore, that alone disqualifies Brady from being on the same tier as those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Issue Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, lancerman said: Yawn... I watched Jordan. He was my favorite athlete as a kid. Aside from Boston sports I was like every other kid who idolized Jordan, in fact in the 90's I had more Chicago Bulls gear than Patriots gear. However, I watched Lebron too. Lebron is a better athlete and a bigger difference maker to his teams than Jordan was. Lebron played stiffer competition than Jordan in most of Finals, Lebron played on worse teams in ALL of his finals. Jordan never played a super team in a final. Lebron never had the coaching excellence or consistency that Jordan had. Lebron's teams fell completely apart when he left them and became league worst teams. Jordan's team was still good when he took a year off it took Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Phil Jackson leaving the same year to dismantle the Chicago Bulls. If Lebron left the Cavs and everyone else stayed they'd be a losing team. Feel free to try to dispute anything I said. Phil Jackson is overrated. The dude rode the wave of two of the league's best 2's to ever play. Jordan made the triangle work in Chicago. If it werent for Jordan, Phil Jackson may have ended up an absolute nobody. And outside of Pippen (who was top shelf, no doubt), and Grant (a solid role player and 3rd outlet) Jordan's supporting cast was, to be perfectly honest, far from stellar. Role players. Jordan was the Tom Brady of the Bulls and Belichick was the Phil Jackson. Jackson kept a revolving door of spare parts around Jordan (some better, some worse) that fit the roles and Jordan made it work year after year. I cant stand Jordan. And I think Magic is the GOAT, not Jordan. But I think youre overstating the level of help Jordan had compared to Lebron. King James hasnt exactly been out there on an island. Dude has had some pretty good help for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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