Will Tom Brady Become The Greatest...

[lancerman]

39 minutes ago, Shady Slim said:

yeah it was a bit tongue in cheek but i do think a lot of american sports fans close their eyes and start shouting nyeh when people talk about some "foreign sports"

i agree with u wholeheartedly about soccer but would like to note the last world cup final sucked so much lmao

I mean if we are being completely honest, the top 5 biggest soccer players ever out do Brady Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth in global appeal. 

[Shady Slim]

47 minutes ago, lancerman said:

I mean if we are being completely honest, the top 5 biggest soccer players ever out do Brady Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth in global appeal. 

good for them, bradman outdoes them too, gretzky's still the goat and soccer's still awful  

[Tartarus]

Messi

[Plat2]

21 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

Messi

Is he even that much better than Cristiano Ronaldo?

Seems like alot of GOATs and potential GOATs started their playing career in the early 2000s...Brady (2001) LeBron (2003) Messi (2005) Ronaldo (2003) Federer (2000) Nadal (2002)

[Wolverine_Joe]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

And Jordan won't surpass Ali

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SportsCentury

 

before Brady these players were the mt rushmore

jordan

ali

babe

gretzky

 

BIG 4. and there is a big gap after that IMO.  the best football player IMO was never mentioned in a same sentence.   right now big 4 would be different.  i can't put gretzky there anymore.  nobody cares about the hockey. it fell off too much.   great sports player has to be talked about.  they have to be in the minds of public - good or bad.   if jordan was 90% loved and 10% hated.  brady is probably other way around. and that's ok.  at least brady is people's head - football #1 sports after all here.

i do remember - many were about to crown Tiger as jordan's equal in 00's, many thought Tiger was the guy who would become one of the mt rushmore.  but he couldn't sustain greatness for 5-6 more years.  

if i redo the mt rushmore -  it would be

jordan

brady

ali

 

so big 4 is actually big 3 for me.  baseball has just too many issues.  honestly putting Babe in any list just don't make sense for various reasons.  phelps?  no. i can't put a swimmer on that list.  Tiger would've been perfect #4, but just too bad what happened to him.  

 

anyway i get your argument - brady has everything and he's dominance is probably equal or better than brady.   but what separates jordan from other players is the myth and the way he did it.  style points count.    you can argue all you want about phil jackson, scottie, weak era, and etc, but we all saw what jordan did and he did it better than any basketball player.  and the mythology of jordan is something we can't ignore.  just listen or read about jordan - it makes you think jordan never missed a clutch shot. lol    but that's something we shouldn't ignore.  that's how impactful jordan was and how much he was loved by so many.

i've been that 'brady is the GOAT' guy since 07 season.   yes i was being a homer. but i just thought brady was just brilliant.

but it would be weird seeing brady as #1.   nobody ever mentioned joe montana in a same sentence as jordan. that's how far jordan was ahead of the best QB.    hell IMO, montana wasn't even in the same league as magic.  football players have a distinct disadvantage because of team sports factor.  did brady surpass montana that much?  i guess so. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mission27]

1 hour ago, Plat2 said:

Is he even that much better than Cristiano Ronaldo?

Seems like alot of GOATs and potential GOATs started their playing career in the early 2000s...Brady (2001) LeBron (2003) Messi (2005) Ronaldo (2003) Federer (2000) Nadal (2002)

Late 90s but Tiger too tbh.  Don't care that he probably wont pass Jack, he is absolutely the GOAT.

You could say the same about the early-mid 80s though.  Jordan (1984-85), Gretzky (1978-79), Bonds (1986).

But I think this is all recency bias tbh.  People will adapt their criteria to fit the best players they personally saw play.  In the NBA, where stats aren't as crazy as they used to be, people will disregard Wilt's numbers because of the era he played in and say MJ / Lebron were better.  In the NFL, where stats have gotten more inflated for QBs, people tend to put the likes of Manning and Brees ahead of guys like Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh, without considering the era these guys played in and how it effected their numbers.  Its really hard and probably meaningless to compare Drew Brees and Sammy Baugh imo.  

There are two players imo who completely transcend eras and are the undisputed GOAT in US team sports.  That would be Wayne Gretzky and Tom Brady. Brady is going to be as good as anyone statistically and way better from a winning perspective when its all said and done.  And Gretzky was too dominant for there to be any argument imo.

[Plat2]

4 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Late 90s but Tiger too tbh.  Don't care that he probably wont pass Jack, he is absolutely the GOAT.

You could say the same about the early-mid 80s though.  Jordan (1984-85), Gretzky (1978-79), Bonds (1986).

But I think this is all recency bias tbh.  People will adapt their criteria to fit the best players they personally saw play.  In the NBA, where stats aren't as crazy as they used to be, people will disregard Wilt's numbers because of the era he played in and say MJ / Lebron were better.  In the NFL, where stats have gotten more inflated for QBs, people tend to put the likes of Manning and Brees ahead of guys like Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh, without considering the era these guys played in and how it effected their numbers.  Its really hard and probably meaningless to compare Drew Brees and Sammy Baugh imo.  

There are two players imo who completely transcend eras and are the undisputed GOAT in US team sports.  That would be Wayne Gretzky and Tom Brady. Brady is going to be as good as anyone statistically and way better from a winning perspective when its all said and done.  And Gretzky was too dominant for there to be any argument imo.

Really? Not even including Jordan? he's not even in the same level as Brady now?

[biletnikoff]

21 hours ago, lancerman said:

That's kind of BS. 

The second one was technically decided by a kick at the end of a game that was tied. But that was already after Vinatieri missed his first two kicks. 

Brady: 32/48, 66%, 354 yards, 3TD, 1INT, 100.5 rating

Vinatieri 1/3 kicks. 

Somehow we give the kicker more credit? 

It's  not 'kind of BS' .there's  no such thing as 'kind if BS. His,arm did not decide the ultimate outcome of the game.  He was the starting pitcher  who did just enough to keep the team in the game  and the relief pitcher/ Kicker came in and won the game

Vinatieri is the Alejandro Sosa  to Bradys  Tony Montana  

[Plat2]

1 hour ago, Wolverine_Joe said:

if i redo the mt rushmore -  it would be

jordan

brady

ali

Why not include Gretzky still, even though hockey isn't as big anymore it doesn't make what he did less impressive. I would argue that he was the most DOMINANT team sports player ever.

Quote

 

 

[mission27]

1 minute ago, Plat2 said:

Really? Not even including Jordan? he's not even in the same level as Brady now?

I'm not comparing guys across sports just within the sport. 

Brady to me is the undisputed GOAT in the NFL.  No argument for anyone else.  Gretzky is the same in the NHL.

In the NBA, I would say Jordan is the GOAT, but you can make a really good argument for Lebron.  Or probably Wilt or Bill Russell.  And I think that argument will hinge on what matters most to you (statistical achievement, winning, etc.) and how you compare players across eras. 

[Plat2]

2 minutes ago, mission27 said:

I'm not comparing guys across sports just within the sport. 

Brady to me is the undisputed GOAT in the NFL.  No argument for anyone else.  Gretzky is the same in the NHL.

In the NBA, I would say Jordan is the GOAT, but you can make a really good argument for Lebron.  Or probably Wilt or Bill Russell.  And I think that argument will hinge on what matters most to you (statistical achievement, winning, etc.) and how you compare players across eras. 

If you can argue for Lebron as the basketball GOAT then you can argue for Jerry Rice and Bobby Orr too. And if you wan't to go as far back as Bill/Wilt then why can't you argue for Jim Brown too.

[mission27]

Just now, Plat2 said:

If you can argue for Lebron as the basketball GOAT then you can argue for Jerry Rice and Bobby Orr too.

Tbh there is a very strong argument for Lebron.  He is the more complete player, will end his career with more statistical accomplishments, and has taken his team to the finals seven straight years with three completely different teams, none of which have been nearly as strong as MJs Bulls teams.  Again I'd still say MJ but expect Lebron will be viewed as the GOAT within the next 5 years. 

I'm not sure what the argument is for Rice over Brady .  Brady will end his career as statistically accomplished as Rice, has won much more than Rice did, and also plays a much more important position and has a bigger impact on his team than Rice did.  Rice would touch the ball 5-10 times a game.  Brady touches the ball on every play.  He's thrown the ball 48, 50, and 62 (!!) times in winning Super Bowl efforts.  Rice was a great player but idk how you can compare his impact to Tom Brady.

[iothar]

34 minutes ago, biletnikoff said:

It's  not 'kind of BS' .there's  no such thing as 'kind if BS. His,arm did not decide the ultimate outcome of the game.  He was the starting pitcher  who did just enough to keep the team in the game  and the relief pitcher/ Kicker came in and won the game

Vinatieri is the Alejandro Sosa  to Bradys  Tony Montana  

Na you are wrong. Adam decided 2 super bowls. Brady's arm won 3. Brady is the Goat and if he wins this one you will just come up with some terrible argument again just like the rest of your posts. Rams and panthers Adam won with Brady doing just enough. Brady had a 10 point lead against the Eagles and they scored a touchdown and come up short. He led a drive to give a lead against seattle who couldn't score and he made the greatest comeback ever against the falcons. Your argument is crap and you know it.

[biletnikoff]

4 minutes ago, iothar said:

Na you are wrong. Adam decided 2 super bowls. Brady's arm won 3. Brady is the Goat and if he wins this one you will just come up with some terrible argument again just like the rest of your posts. Rams and panthers Adam won with Brady doing just enough. Brady had a 10 point lead against the Eagles and they scored a touchdown and come up short. He led a drive to give a lead against seattle who couldn't score and he made the greatest comeback ever against the falcons. Your argument is crap and you know it.

Like the rest of my posts? I'll say it again..I am, in fact, the most intelligent  sports fan on this forum till you also realize you are watching entertainment and not competition. That's  just the way it is.Thats just how it goes.Thats just what real life is. 

[Plat2]

17 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Tbh there is a very strong argument for Lebron.  He is the more complete player, will end his career with more statistical accomplishments, and has taken his team to the finals seven straight years with three completely different teams, none of which have been nearly as strong as MJs Bulls teams.  Again I'd still say MJ but expect Lebron will be viewed as the GOAT within the next 5 years.

I'm not sure what the argument is for Rice over Brady .  Brady will end his career as statistically accomplished as Rice, has won much more than Rice did, and also plays a much more important position and has a bigger impact on his team than Rice did.  Rice would touch the ball 5-10 times a game.  Brady touches the ball on every play.  He's thrown the ball 48, 50, and 62 (!!) times in winning Super Bowl efforts.  Rice was a great player but idk how you can compare his impact to Tom Brady.

Expect him to be? LOL he will not be GOAT in 5 years, chances are he will not even win another ring ever again because of the monster of a team that is called the Warriors.

Listen, I can see if you thought Brady is equal or maybe even better than MJ...but MJ not even in the conversation? c'mon man!