NFL News & Notes

[PossibleCabbage]

Like the concerns with Musgrave were basically limited to "health" and "tape" both because he got hurt last year and Oregon State didn't have much at QB when he was there.

People liked Mayer and Kincaid because they got to see a lot of them in their final college football seasons, and what they did was encouraging.  Musgrave, though he might have had better tools, was more of a mystery.

[Striker]

24 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

Like the concerns with Musgrave were basically limited to "health" and "tape" both because he got hurt last year and Oregon State didn't have much at QB when he was there.

People liked Mayer and Kincaid because they got to see a lot of them in their final college football seasons, and what they did was encouraging.  Musgrave, though he might have had better tools, was more of a mystery.

^ this. Basically came down to going after the more "NFL ready" player or the one with the higher potential ceiling if they put it together/stay healthy.

[AlexGreen#20]

I'm shocked people are watching Musgrave and thinking "This dude can't play." Musgrave looks really good out there. 

[Old Guy]

12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I'm shocked people are watching Musgrave and thinking "This dude can't play." Musgrave looks really good out there. 

People get caught up on their own preconceived draft thought and do not like to come off of them, even when contradictory facts are in plain sight.

Regarding the one poster, I think he's related to Kincaid or something because it's more of a fetish at this point. 

[skibrett15]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I'm shocked people are watching Musgrave and thinking "This dude can't play." Musgrave looks really good out there. 

general vibes I'm reading is all positive, and the fantasy football people seem pretty intrigued as well.

When it gets to that point... usually good things ahead for the player.

It's a volatile spot in terms of role, offense, and the nature of the position, but Musgrave is probably the 2nd most likely explosive play threat we have after Watson.

[ThatJerkDave]

The Packers' best season for a TE is Paul Coffman in 1983.  He had 11 TDs and 814 yards.  Just to temper anyone's 1000 yard TE expectations.

[PackFan13]

No one said Musgrave can't play, he's just not on the same level as Kincaid. College production wasn't close and thus far he's outproduced him in one pre-season game compared to 3 for Musgrave. I went to the U so I'm a fan of his. Old guy thinks he's better because he thinks he knows football better than people who do it for a living.

Insults for a near unanimous opionon by most that Kincaid >> Musgrave. The only TE taken in the first round compared to the 4th or 5th TE off the board from a GM with a horrific track record at drafting the TE position. La Porta was the second best and unfortunately is now a Lion. I hope Musgrave lights it up he's just not proven like my guy Dalton so sorry if that hurts to hear. 

[Lodestar]

I was curious about the Lance Zierlein comment, so I looked it up and saw he had Musgrave mocked to us at #15 in his first mock draft back in February.

[Brat&Beer]

55 minutes ago, PackFan13 said:

No one said Musgrave can't play, he's just not on the same level as Kincaid. College production wasn't close and thus far he's outproduced him in one pre-season game compared to 3 for Musgrave. I went to the U so I'm a fan of his. Old guy thinks he's better because he thinks he knows football better than people who do it for a living.

Insults for a near unanimous opionon by most that Kincaid >> Musgrave. The only TE taken in the first round compared to the 4th or 5th TE off the board from a GM with a horrific track record at drafting the TE position. La Porta was the second best and unfortunately is now a Lion. I hope Musgrave lights it up he's just not proven like my guy Dalton so sorry if that hurts to hear. 

There may be very good reasons for Kincaid being the consensus choice as best TE in the 2023 class. But that doesn't mean that "people who do it for a living" always get it right. Ten years ago Travis Kelce was the 5th TE taken. How did they get it so wrong? Kincaid might turn out to be great. Or he might be another TE drafted in the 1st round who doesn't live up to his lofty reputation. None of us know for sure at this point.

 

 

 

[mikebpackfan]

44 minutes ago, Lodestar said:

I was curious about the Lance Zierlein comment, so I looked it up and saw he had Musgrave mocked to us at #15 in his first mock draft back in February.

[TransientTexan]

29 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

There may be very good reasons for Kincaid being the consensus choice as best TE in the 2023 class. But that doesn't mean that "people who do it for a living" always get it right. Ten years ago Travis Kelce was the 5th TE taken. How did they get it so wrong? Kincaid might turn out to be great. Or he might be another TE drafted in the 1st round who doesn't live up to his lofty reputation. None of us know for sure at this point.

 

 

 

Also, nobody knows actual scout “consensus”. The only thing we know for certain is that the Bills staff valued him at 25th. We don’t know zilch about what the other 31 teams rated him at.

and the media “scouts” & draftniks are meaningless. Zero of them are currently being paid for their evaluations by an NFL team or anyone that matters. It’s not like any of them will lose their job if they are wrong. Their resources pale in comparison to the scouting resources employed by NFL teams. Just a collection of solo guys versus entire NFL team scouting departments. Fans don’t even circle back to followup on the draftnik evaluations years later to see how they did, so they pay no penalty. All the draftniks really need to do to earn a living is to put out plausible-sounding hopium that will appeal to fans, & throw in a few scout-speak cliche’s (sand-in-the-pants, waste-bender, etc). 

[Mdpackfan22]

20 hours ago, MacReady said:

You could say it, but you'd be wrong. Even if I could admit it was close this year (it's really not considering the Niners DL), the Eagles failed their franchise miserably by giving Hurts a market setting deal when Hurts does not and will never deserve a market setting deal.

The Eagles defense cannot survive without the Eagles ability to run the ball as effectively as they do.
The Eagles will not be able to run the ball as effectively as they do once that OL starts to disappear.
That OL is about to disappear due to simple age, but it will not be replicated.

The Eagles are in the beginning of the decline, and it won't be 4 years before they're rebuilding completely.

And I really get sick of saying this over and over and over and over again only to be told I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about when I'm literally right time after time after time.

Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning... Those are quarterbacks who can keep a team in Super Bowl Purgatory. Good enough to get a couple playoff wins, not good enough to get to the next level while being paid market level QB pay.

Even Tom Brady failed to get past the first or second postseason game in years he was paid over 13% of the cap. Don't believe me look it up.

Pat Mahomes is, so far, the only player in NFL history to be able to take that money and lead his team to consistently deep postseason runs. Only player in NFL history to win a Super Bowl above 13% of the cap limit.

Jalen Hurts is not Mahomes.

Don't give me the rushing stats. They're meaningless to a QB and a detriment. Time and time again people say it's not an issue with such and such until it becomes an issue. He's a running liability. Just like Lamar Jackson turned into a realized liability, just like Dak Prescott.

Regardless, it's really not all that much. In his first year as a starter, Hurts had 500 more rushing yards and 8 more rushing touchdowns than Mahomes had in Pat's first year. Patrick Mahomes just happened to have 2,000 more passing yards and 34 more passing touchdowns.

The reason Hurts and Jackson are able to produce those rushing yards is because they were on rookie contracts with elite offensive lines and commitment to running the football. Neither of them have had a 4,000 yard passing season.

Jon Kitna had two. Steve Buerlein had one. Kerry Collins had one. Brad Johnson had one. Phil Simms had one. Jake Plummer had one. Fifty quarterbacks have had one dating back to Joe damn Namath in 1967, nigh on 60 years ago and 60 years of offensive friendly rule changes.

Rant over. The Eagles are not a better team than the Niners due to the Niners DL and their cap health. Niners are set up for a ten year run. Eagles are set up to fail.

 

I agree that the Eagles giving Hurts that contract is gonna hurt them in the future, but they are in a far better spot then the Niners. Niners lack of draft capital the last few years is gonna come back to bite them hard. The Trey Lance trade was a disaster that's gonna set them back years. Last year was their chance to win with going all in on CMC and Bosa on a rookie contract.

-CMC is a year older and contract is inflated

-They don't have a franchise QB. I'm not high on Purdy and he didn't have much arm strength before the Tommy John surgery. Someone fact check me but I believe only 3 QBs have gotten the same injury he had so jury is still out on him.

-They lost the best DC in the league and replaced him with Wilks

-Kittle is injury prone and his playstyle isn't gonna lead him to a long career. When he plays he's great, how many more seasons of his prime does he have?

-Deebo is injury prone and is way less of a weapon now after his contract with them using him almost strictly as a WR

-Nick Bosa is currently holding out and the contract he gets is gonna be in the 5 yr, 167.5m ball park range according to PFF. They're gonna lose a lot of pieces after he inks that deal.

-Their OL besides Trent Williams is a bunch of JAGs. Trent Williams is a top 3 LT at minimum but how much longer does he have?

 

 

I'm not high on the Niners at all and think they're gonna find themselves in a position similar to us in 2023 when their win now moves the past few years finally come back to bite them 

[Refugee]

NE wheelin’ and dealin’ for developmental tackles. Traded a 6th to Min for one and RB to Cle for another. I guess they didn’t like our young guys at the joint practices. 

[Old Guy]

21 minutes ago, Refugee said:

NE wheelin’ and dealin’ for developmental tackles. Traded a 6th to Min for one and RB to Cle for another. I guess they didn’t like our young guys at the joint practices. 

Or they didn't offer enough for one of ours because we value them more. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Old Guy

[Striker]

13 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

There may be very good reasons for Kincaid being the consensus choice as best TE in the 2023 class. But that doesn't mean that "people who do it for a living" always get it right. Ten years ago Travis Kelce was the 5th TE taken. How did they get it so wrong? Kincaid might turn out to be great. Or he might be another TE drafted in the 1st round who doesn't live up to his lofty reputation. None of us know for sure at this point.

 

 

 

Tyler Eifert (R1-21), Zach Ertz (R2-35), Gavin Escobar (R2-47), and Van McDonald (R2-55) all taken before Kelce. 

Ertz was obviously very good and Eifert had injury issues but was productive when healthy.

Oof those other two.

tl:dr - drafting TEs is a crapshoot.