NFL News & Notes

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

He didnt hit him with his head. He hit him with his left shoulder and in order to do that he has to lower their shoulder - and since the head is attached, it comes with it.

Again - we'll see how it plays out on the field, but I suspect the intent it to prevent defensive spearing - which is far more prevalent than RBs / WRs trying to avoid a tackle by hitting a defender with their head. It doesnt really do much good.

This rule isn't to prevent Davante Adams hits.

This rule is going to be interpreted the same way that the current one is, LBs and DBs hitting WRs and TEs. 

There's plenty of offensive players lowering their head going on in a football game. Much like with DBs and LBs, it comes from people trying to hit with their shoulder but not lifting their head up. Lifting the head up through contact isn't a natural motion through contact.

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This rule isn't to prevent Davante Adams hits.

This rule is going to be interpreted the same way that the current one is, LBs and DBs hitting WRs and TEs. 

There's plenty of offensive players lowering their head going on in a football game. Much like with DBs and LBs, it comes from people trying to hit with their shoulder but not lifting their head up. Lifting the head up through contact isn't a natural motion through contact.

Thats what you say. Again - we'll see how it plays out on the field. I submit that the hits I referenced that Adams took are specifically the kind this rule SHOULD deal with. The CHI LB damn near took Adams facemask off with a direct - straight on - helmet to helmet hit. Davis (the CAR LB) launched himself trying to block Adams - with the point of contact being his helmet going directly into the side of Adams.

If this rule ISNT to prevent such events in the future.....well, then its not worth much and these instances differ markedly from an offensive player trying to "make himself small" or lowering his shoulder to take on a tackler or "deliver a blow" in hope of bouncing or spinning off and continuing downfield. There's always going to be incidental helmet contact - for as long as they wear helmets that is - but offensive players dont "weaponize" their heads simply because it does no good. The offensive player has a whole host of options to either avoid a tackler or minimize the tacklers effectiveness and the one with the least impact is trying to "club them" with their head. I'm not saying some numbskull hasnt tried it over time - but certainly not often enough to warrant this rule change.

We'll see how it gets interpreted in the field.

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, Leader said:

Thats what you say. Again - we'll see how it plays out on the field. I submit that the hits I referenced that Adams took are specifically the kind this rule SHOULD deal with. The CHI LB damn near took Adams facemask off with a direct - straight on - helmet to helmet hit. Davis (the CAR LB) launched himself trying to block Adams - with the point of contact being his helmet going directly into the side of Adams.

If this rule ISNT to prevent such events in the future.....well, then its not worth much and these instances differ markedly from an offensive player trying to "make himself small" or lowering his shoulder to take on a tackler or "deliver a blow" in hope of bouncing or spinning off and continuing downfield. There's always going to be incidental helmet contact - for as long as they wear helmets that is - but offensive players dont "weaponize" their heads simply because it does no good. The offensive player has a whole host of options to either avoid a tackler or minimize the tacklers effectiveness and the one with the least impact is trying to "club them" with their head. I'm not saying some numbskull hasnt tried it over time - but certainly not often enough to warrant this rule change.

We'll see how it gets interpreted in the field.

Let me rephrase, Davante Adams like hits will be covered.

We disagree with the frequency with which offensive players lower their head. Anytime you try and run through a guy you're lowering your head.

Can the head be kept bent up while trying to run through a defender? Yes

Is it? Almost never.

Tackling and trying to run through guys is a very similar motion. Keeping the head up through that motion is unnatural and that's why it gets practiced so much, because you have to override the instinct. 

[Leader]

3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Let me rephrase, Davante Adams like hits will be covered.

We disagree with the frequency with which offensive players lower their head. Anytime you try and run through a guy you're lowering your head.

Can the head be kept bent up while trying to run through a defender? Yes

Is it? Almost never.

Tackling and trying to run through guys is a very similar motion. Keeping the head up through that motion is unnatural and that's why it gets practiced so much, because you have to override the instinct. 

The "instinct" of an offensive player is to protect the football - or it should be. For those that it isnt - the sideline awaits - hence, the "instinct" to get small and I'll submit that you cant get small - protect the football - and keep your head up at the same time. You've taken your shoulders out of the equation.

Again - I believe this rule is intended primarily to reign in defensive spearing.

Or - in the case of the infamous OBJ/Josh Norman Duel In The Sun - I thought OBJ should have been tossed. Sure - Norman was talking some serious trash (to good effect as it got OBJ completely off his game) - BUT - when OBJ came at Norman and launched himself like a missile, hitting Norman helmet to helmet - I thought he should have been tossed right there. Hopefully - with this new rule - he (or any player acting in a similar manner) will.

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, Leader said:

The "instinct" of an offensive player is to protect the football - or it should be. For those that it isnt - the sideline awaits - hence, the "instinct" to get small and I'll submit that you cant get small - protect the football - and keep your head up at the same time. You've taken your shoulders out of the equation.

Again - I believe this rule is intended primarily to reign in defensive spearing.

Or - in the case of the infamous OBJ/Josh Norman Duel In The Sun - I thought OBJ should have been tossed. Sure - Norman was talking some serious trash (to good effect as it got OBJ completely off his game) - BUT - when OBJ came at Norman and launched himself like a missile, hitting Norman helmet to helmet - I thought he should have been tossed right there. Hopefully - with this new rule - he (or any player acting in a similar manner) will.

That is the rule that's being placed. 

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, that Eddie Lacy can lower his head to run through contact using his helmet as a weapon and nobody bats an eye, but if Kevin King accidentally hits a WR while making a legit play on the ball, it's a 15 yard penalty.

[Leader]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

That is the rule that's being placed. 

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, that Eddie Lacy can lower his head to run through contact using his helmet as a weapon and nobody bats an eye, but if Kevin King accidentally hits a WR while making a legit play on the ball, it's a 15 yard penalty.

Okay. I'm gonna jump off this merry-go-round now. Repeating: Lacy didnt hit anybody with his helmet. He used his left shoulder and delivered to blow to the defender, knocking him to the ground - which - I'll submit is impossible if you hit a player with your helmet - or, more precisely - the only way an offensive player could knock a defender to the ground (in the manner shown) with just a helmet hit would be if he knocked him out cold - which to my knowledge didnt happen.

Again - we'll see how its called on the field.

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, Leader said:

Okay. I'm gonna jump off this merry-go-round now. Repeating: Lacy didnt hit anybody with his helmet. He used his left shoulder and delivered to blow to the defender, knocking him to the ground - which - I'll submit is impossible if you hit a player with your helmet - or, more precisely - the only way an offensive player could knock a defender to the ground (in the manner shown) with just a helmet hit would be if he knocked him out cold - which to my knowledge didnt happen.

Again - we'll see how its called on the field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lDDZGLBkFY

Even if you disagree with that instance, watch this video and tell me NFL RBs don't lower their head through contact. It is impossible to lead with your shoulders without leading with your head unless you turn at the last second which NFL RBs are not doing. 

[Greg C.]

59 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That is the rule that's being placed. 

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, that Eddie Lacy can lower his head to run through contact using his helmet as a weapon and nobody bats an eye, but if Kevin King accidentally hits a WR while making a legit play on the ball, it's a 15 yard penalty.

The idea is to prevent serious injuries, especially concussions, and I don't see many of those kinds of injuries when the player with the ball lowers his head. That's because the defender is expecting it and has time to react accordingly. A ballcarrier is not going to seek out an unsuspecting defender and blast him with his helmet. He would rather gain yardage by avoiding the defender. But defensive players often hit ballcarriers in dangerous ways when they have no time to react. So this is not a double standard. The two situations (ballcarrier lowering his head vs. defender lowering his head) are very different. Defenders have to adjust to the rules, and it is fair because the rules are the same for both defenses. 

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Greg C. said:

The idea is to prevent serious injuries, especially concussions, and I don't see many of those kinds of injuries when the player with the ball lowers his head. That's because the defender is expecting it and has time to react accordingly. A ballcarrier is not going to seek out an unsuspecting defender and blast him with his helmet. He would rather gain yardage by avoiding the defender. But defensive players often hit ballcarriers in dangerous ways when they have no time to react. So this is not a double standard. The two situations (ballcarrier lowering his head vs. defender lowering his head) are very different. Defenders have to adjust to the rules, and it is fair because the rules are the same for both defenses. 

Defenders don't want to lower their heads either in most situations. If you want to punish guys for headhunting in the secondary, that's fine, but the plays where both receiver and DB are playing the ball in the air, or the plays where the ball carrier is falling and helmet to helmet contact is made six inches off the ground, those need to not be called penalties. 

Make the rule that a hit has to be:

1. Helmet to helmet

2. Deliberate Launch/Duck/Drive

3. No arms brought through contact

4. On a defenseless player

5. No attempt made on the ball.

If you do that, then I can get behind the rule but, just having it be players lowering their head and initiating contact is bull**** for the defense. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Defenders don't want to lower their heads either in most situations. If you want to punish guys for headhunting in the secondary, that's fine, but the plays where both receiver and DB are playing the ball in the air, or the plays where the ball carrier is falling and helmet to helmet contact is made six inches off the ground, those need to not be called penalties. 

Make the rule that a hit has to be:

1. Helmet to helmet

2. Deliberate Launch/Duck/Drive

3. No arms brought through contact

4. On a defenseless player

5. No attempt made on the ball.

If you do that, then I can get behind the rule but, just having it be players lowering their head and initiating contact is bull**** for the defense. 

Exactly. The way the rule is written right now, if enforced just based on how it reads, would cover 85% of all tackles by defensive players in the NFL. Pretty much every tackle involves a defender lowering his helmet because hes lowering his body to make a tackle. Moreover some contact with the helmet happens basically every play. That's just football. 

Hopefully the rule is meant to just pick out those more brutal, intentional cheap shot plays but that's not how this current rule reads.

[Leader]

A little bit of trivia:

Odell Beckham made the Pro Bowl three times with the Giants. He'll be 26 next year, and might make the Pro Bowl with a new team.

Who is the youngest player in history to make the Pro Bowl with two different teams?

(Key Jeopardy music.....)

[Reaper]

Deion? Falcons - 49ers?

[Leader]

Just now, Reaper said:

Deion? Falcons - 49ers?

No.

Think offense.

[vegas492]

Herschel Walker?

[Leader]

59 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Herschel Walker?

No - but you've got the position grouping correct........