FGK Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, bruceb said: Ya, but what did Paul Brown know? Not as much as BTC, I guess. I disagree with BTC on this point, I think an elite C is just as valuable as an elite G (I'd rank offensive importance in a typical 3 wide with a TE and RB as... QB/LT/WR1/RT/WR2/C). But come on. Paul Brown coached like 40 years ago. This is a different SPORT at this point. Let alone examining the relative values of individual positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 hour ago, freakygeniuskid said: But come on. Paul Brown coached like 40 years ago. The importance of the C position has not changed. 1 hour ago, freakygeniuskid said: I'd rank offensive importance in a typical 3 wide with a TE and RB as... QB/LT/WR1/RT/WR2/C Wouldn't that depend on the play you call? Seriously, if you are running off the right side the LT, WR1 and possibly WR2 probably are not keys to the success of the play. Conversely, if you are running off the left side, the RT, WR2 and possibly WR1 are not. On both plays, though, the C is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 hour ago, bruceb said: Except for the fact that there doesn't seem to be top OT talent. Top tier no, Really good with high upside, yes. And will be plenty at the top of the 2nd round, next.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Top tier no, Really good with high upside, yes. And will be plenty at the top of the 2nd round, next.... Just to make sure I understand: You would pass on a likely BPA at a cornerstone position who in this case also can play G to pair (hopefully) with your QBOTF for 10-15 years to take a flyer on a R2 LT pick with high upside, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, bruceb said: The importance of the C position has not changed. And this is not really the issue. The issue is: Value of the pick. Give me our QBOTF and Mack 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Unpopular take that I only heard Bucky Brooks make that me and my brother in law were talking about is the player comparison for Sam Darnold is Russell Wilson... not only because of their elongated, explosive release but that they are magicians under pressure and make big time plays off-platform. Both are tough as nails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Unpopular take that I only heard Bucky Brooks make that me and my brother in law were talking about is the player comparison for Sam Darnold is Russell Wilson... not only because of their elongated, explosive release but that they are magicians under pressure and make big time plays off-platform. Both are tough as nails. And Darnold is much bigger! I will take a much bigger Russell Wilson all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Darnold is Wilson now? Y'all are crazy. Darnold is Carr/Bradford imo which isn't close to Wilson. Wilson makes a lot happen because he is a threat to run. Do you guys watch Wilson play? None of the top 3 bring what Wilson does. Sorry. Jackson if he had the accuracy of the top 3 is a Wilson comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 3 hours ago, bruceb said: "You're only as good as your offensive line, which protects the quarterback and opens lanes for the running game, is something we imagine (Paul) Brown schooling the world on. Brown began work with what he believed was the most vital position of all... center. Back when football was a tougher and grittier version of what we see today, centers called blocking schemes (many still do that today) and was the foundation of most running plays. The better the center, where every offensive play starts, the better the offensive line played all around." He took a center at #1 overall. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/4/27/8385233/2015-nfl-draft-no-4-bengals-draft-pick-of-all-time Ya, but what did Paul Brown know? Not as much as BTC, I guess. Yep. Football is exactly the same as it was back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Darnold is Wilson now? Y'all are crazy. Darnold is Carr/Bradford imo which isn't close to Wilson. Wilson makes a lot happen because he is a threat to run. Do you guys watch Wilson play? None of the top 3 bring what Wilson does. Sorry. Jackson if he had the accuracy of the top 3 is a Wilson comparison. I would deff say Darnold is more Wilson than Bradford Tony Romo is really the best comparison out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Darnold to Russell Wilson comparison? That seems bizarre to say the least. Don't see that comparison at all. It's fun to throw out comparisons, but most of them are utterly worthless. Once these players hit the league they become their own guy. I think it's useful for casuals to hear player comparisons just so they get an idea of the skill set the player is working with, but searching for that perfect comparison is sometimes futile and forces some really bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Yep. Football is exactly the same as it was back then. Jim Brown was bigger than the 1960s DEs he used to play against. The game has evolved in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 19 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Yep. Football is exactly the same as it was back then. Some things about it have not changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 50 minutes ago, brownie man said: I would deff say Darnold is more Wilson than Bradford Tony Romo is really the best comparison out there Physically? No way. Darnold won't run a faster 40 time than Bradford, let alone Wilson. Size isn't comparable to Wilson. The threat to run isn't close to Wilson. Also Wilson has huge hands Darnold can escape pressure but he isn't a threat to run other than the occasional open field in front of him in the NFL. No one has to respect his ability to pick up yards with his feet. Wilson has been successful because of that along with good passing ability, even if he is inconsistent at times. Romo is closer because Romo would take what was given but again defenses didn't game plan for his running ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Darnold is Wilson now? Y'all are crazy. Darnold is Carr/Bradford imo which isn't close to Wilson. Wilson makes a lot happen because he is a threat to run. Do you guys watch Wilson play? None of the top 3 bring what Wilson does. Sorry. Jackson if he had the accuracy of the top 3 is a Wilson comparison. 6 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Darnold to Russell Wilson comparison? That seems bizarre to say the least. Don't see that comparison at all. It's fun to throw out comparisons, but most of them are utterly worthless. Once these players hit the league they become their own guy. I think it's useful for casuals to hear player comparisons just so they get an idea of the skill set the player is working with, but searching for that perfect comparison is sometimes futile and forces some really bad ones. Darnold's play is nothing like Bradford or Derek Carr coming out of college. Yeah...I actually watch football. If you think Lamar Jackson with Accuracy plays like Russell Wilson than I'd question if you actually watch football. Russell Wilson makes exceptional plays late game, 4th quarter, and does his best work off-platform under duress extending plays with his legs outside of the pocket, but Wilson can win inside the pocket with poise and accuracy as well. That is exactly Darnold's game. Darnold also like Wilson has a looping but explosive baseball release. Darnold has a baseball release from playing baseball. They both have off the chart intangibles, no off the field concerns, and rare leadership traits. The only difference between Darnold and Wilson are the color of their skin, height, Russell being a more demonstrative leader, and Russell being a better athlete when it comes to running the ball. Those differences are minor compared to how remarkably similar their play styles and other aspects of their game are. The comparison between Darnold and Russell is a strong one that scouts and people that know the game have made. Wilson threw a lot of INTs like Darnold at NCState when he had a poor OL and tried to do too much as well. Derek Carr has always been an upright pocket passer who rarely made off platform throws but won in the pocket with quick and powerful anticipatory throws. Carr didn't have the poise of Darnold under duress and was knocked because of it pre-draft. Sam Bradford was a static/statue in-pocket quick decision decisive accurate thrower who crumbled under inside pressure. In every NFL draft room, a scouting evaluation includes player comparisons as part of a scouting report and means a lot to evaluators; however, most care more about whether their core play traits and intangibles are comparable....not that everything superficial is exactly comparable (height, hands size, skin color, etc...) Again....very good scouts and personnel execs have/and are starting to compare Sam Darnold's core play traits/styles and core intangibles to that of Russell Wilson.....and in fact, make the point that based on core play traits/styles and core intangibles Sam Darnold is more comparable to Russell Wilson than Baker Mayfield is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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