2018 NFL Combine (measurements in OP)

[brownie man]

Chark is a beast and he can return too

hes going to make some big plays this year for sure 

Patriots at pick 31 would be dirty 

[DreamKid]

What Chark brings reminds me of Jacoby Jones.

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, MD4L said:

@Counselor would you call Griffin a first round pick?

 

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I know you're not asking me, but I think he has first round film and athleticism, but teams are scared away by his missing hand. Before the Combine, he should have been a third round pic at worst. However, he was rated as a late-day 3 pick by most places. Now, he has no business escaping Day 2. I want him on the Rams.

 

1 hour ago, Counselor said:

I wouldn’t take him round 1

Here's the issue before you even get to his 1-handedness - at 227 lbs, he's a ILB or a LB/S hybrid.  So if you take him, you are saying you think he's better than the other ILB's on the board.   I love Griffin, but I have a hard time saying I'd take him over LVE (Vander Esch)....let alone Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds.   

Vander Esch's combine was insane for a guy his size and length (6'4, 253, 33 7/8 arms)- even for a guy 230 lbs, it would have been really good.   

4.65 40-yard dash (again, at 250+)

39'5 vert (wow)

10'4 broad

6.88 3-cone (again, great if you are 230 lbs)

4.12 shuttle (ditto on 230 lbs)

Griffen's choice to skip the 3-cone/shuttle/broad also makes it impossible to compare him to a heavier LVE/Edmunds, and a similarly-weighted Smith, who we know has the elite film vs. SEC/BCS big games & opposition, athletically, we just know he's lightning-fast in a straight line.   Smith is no slouch at 4.52 and we know he's a sure thing in all the film areas and the other drills confirm he's elite.   Same goes for Edmunds.   LVE shows the same great tape albeit vs. lower level competition than SEC/Big 10/ACC (like Griffen does), and offers the bigger frame for run support, and a crazy wingspan / coverage radius.   Man, I dunno that I'd take Griffen over LVE, and it's not even a Q to take him ahead of Smith/Edmunds.  

Positionally, ILB is so devalued, we rarely see more than 1-2 ILB's go in Round 1.  Frankly, we often don't see the 4th-5th ILB go until Round 3 many years.   I agree he has no business being available when Day 3 starts.    Frankly, if he's there at 3.8 and we haven't taken a ILB, I'm fine with that (and certainly fine if he's somehow there at 3.99 comp).   But I mean, it wouldn't be a surprise if LVE (or whoever the 3rd ILB ends up being) is there at 3.8, either - ILB gets so much devaluation.   

Either way, the ILB class really showed up - along with the top EDGE's and top D-Linemen - really wish Vea could have done the whole drillset - Payne was amazing, so was Sweat and several others, but Vea looks like he was going to put up times a 315 lb guy would envy - at 347 lbs.   We'd be talking about Vea in the same breath of awe as Barkley, DJ Moore/Chark and the ILB/EDGE standouts.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I know you're not asking me, but I think he has first round film and athleticism, but teams are scared away by his missing hand. Before the Combine, he should have been a third round pic at worst. However, he was rated as a late-day 3 pick by most places. Now, he has no business escaping Day 2. I want him on the Rams.

I don’t know if this comp has been made, but other than some digits, what separates him from a guy like Haason Reddick?

If he can go in the first round....

I have no idea if Griffin will make it as a pro, but I wouldn’t bet a penny against him.

[jrry32]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t know if this comp has been made, but other than some digits, what separates him from a guy like Haason Reddick?

If he can go in the first round....

I have no idea if Griffin will make it as a pro, but I wouldn’t bet a penny against him.

I think he (Griffin) has a lot more film as an off-the-ball LB. 

[jrry32]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Here's the issue before you even get to his 1-handedness - at 227 lbs, he's a ILB or a LB/S hybrid.  So if you take him, you are saying you think he's better than the other ILB's on the board.   I love Griffin, but I have a hard time saying I'd take him over LVE (Vander Esch)....let alone Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds.   

Vander Esch's combine was insane for a guy his size and length (6'4, 253, 33 7/8 arms)- even for a guy 230 lbs, it would have been really good.   

4.65 40-yard dash (again, at 250+)

39'5 vert (wow)

10'4 broad

6.88 3-cone (again, great if you are 230 lbs)

4.12 shuttle (ditto on 230 lbs)

Griffen's choice to skip the 3-cone/shuttle/broad also makes it impossible to compare him to a heavier LVE/Edmunds, and a similarly-weighted Smith, who we know has the elite film vs. SEC/BCS big games & opposition, athletically, we just know he's lightning-fast in a straight line.   Smith is no slouch at 4.52 and we know he's a sure thing in all the film areas and the other drills confirm he's elite.   Same goes for Edmunds.   LVE shows the same great tape albeit vs. lower level competition than SEC/Big 10/ACC (like Griffen does), and offers the bigger frame for run support, and a crazy wingspan / coverage radius.   Man, I dunno that I'd take Griffen over LVE, and it's not even a Q to take him ahead of Smith/Edmunds.  

Positionally, ILB is so devalued, we rarely see more than 1-2 ILB's go in Round 1.  Frankly, we often don't see the 4th-5th ILB go until Round 3 many years.   I agree he has no business being available when Day 3 starts.    Frankly, if he's there at 3.8 and we haven't taken a ILB, I'm fine with that (and certainly fine if he's somehow there at 3.99 comp).   But I mean, it wouldn't be a surprise if LVE (or whoever the 3rd ILB ends up being) is there at 3.8, either - ILB gets so much devaluation.   

Either way, the ILB class really showed up - along with the top EDGE's and top D-Linemen - really wish Vea could have done the whole drillset - Payne was amazing, so was Sweat and several others, but Vea looks like he was going to put up times a 315 lb guy would envy - at 347 lbs.   We'd be talking about Vea in the same breath of awe as Barkley, DJ Moore/Chark and the ILB/EDGE standouts.

Griffin can play MLB or WLB in the 4-3 or ILB in the 3-4 and be a stud. I'd take him after the big three, but I think all of those guys go in Round 1 too. I'm a lot higher on LVE than most here. There's zero chance that LVE is there in the 3rd. LVE is unlikely to escape the top 40 picks at this point, and I think the odds overwhelmingly favor him going in Round 1.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

I think he (Griffin) has a lot more film as an off-the-ball LB. 

He does, for sure.

Griffin has the film and the athletic chops.  What’s left?

Not gonna lie though, when you look at his physique you’d never guess he was such a freak. I think he may still have some athletic upside as he continues to progress in the weight room.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

On a side note, I’ve never been so impressed with combine numbers as I have been this year, at least based on my initial expectations.

Id have never guessed so many of these guys were as freaky as they are.

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Griffin can play MLB or WLB in the 4-3 or ILB in the 3-4 and be a stud. I'd take him after the big three, but I think all of those guys go in Round 1 too. I'm a lot higher on LVE than most here. There's zero chance that LVE is there in the 3rd. LVE is unlikely to escape the top 40 picks at this point, and I think the odds overwhelmingly favor him going in Round 1.

Normally in most years LVE would be the #1 ILB, so can't argue that take.     Positionally, though, the devaluation of LB really does factor in, and off-ball LB, MLB, teams by and large wait until Day 2.   Can't argue the talent, though.

Add it up, though, Griffen is going after those 3 at a minimum, even with 2 hands.   Anyone after those 3, I can see the argument for Griffen.  

[jrry32]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He does, for sure.

Griffin has the film and the athletic chops.  What’s left?

Not gonna lie though, when you look at his physique you’d never guess he was such a freak. I think he may still have some athletic upside as he continues to progress in the weight room.

One hand. That's it. He's such a special player in terms of his combination of film, intangibles, and athleticism. And I think his build is misleading. If you look at his interview at the Combine, the dude looks rocked up even in clothes. I think he doesn't have a pretty body, but I don't doubt the sort of shape he's in.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, jrry32 said:

One hand. That's it. He's such a special player in terms of his combination of film, intangibles, and athleticism. And I think his build is misleading. If you look at his interview at the Combine, the dude looks rocked up even in clothes. I think he doesn't have a pretty body, but I don't doubt the sort of shape he's in.

Nah, he’s in good enough shape, whatever shape he’s in, but he definitely looks like he has a bit of a belly and not a lot of definition in his arms and shoulders.

My only point is his athleticism may not be tapped out thus far.

[Jlash]

29 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

not a lot of definition in his arms and shoulders.

I have to imagine the disability has to hinder that. Even with the claw thing he uses to bench I can imagine it's awfully hard doing lots of other upper body workouts.

[VanS]

10 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Key’s decision to skip the 40 is going to cost him.  No matter how well you run in the pro day nothing gets held in the same esteem to assess tools as killing it in Indy.  Given Key doesn’t come with a clean slate pre-Combine assessment wise of his draft spot I can see him fall behind Landry now.  

No doubt.  He cost himself a lot of money.  I'll be surprised now if he goes in the 1st round.  He also jumped only 31 inches on the vertical at 238 lbs.  Terrible number for him. 

I'm typically a guy who is big on the athletic testing for edge rushers.  If a guy is elite, I expect him to jump at least 35+ on the vert and run sub-4.7 in the 40.  If Key felt comfortable putting up 31 inches on the vertical but no comfortable enough to run the 40, then that only means his 40 yard number must be even more disappointing than him vertical jump.

With that said, I still like the player's film too much to give up on him.  Every year we see 1-2 guys test extremely poorly but then go on to have pro-bowl careers.  My 2 guys from this draft where I'm still high on their pro potential even after poor days at the combine are ARDEN KEY and TIM SETTLE.  I still have faith that they are pro-bowl caliber players in the NFL even with extremely bad combines.

[jrry32]

Just now, VanS said:

No doubt.  He cost himself a lot of money.  I'll be surprised now if he goes in the 1st round.  He also jumped only 31 inches on the vertical at 238 lbs.  Terrible number for him. 

I'm typically a guy who is big on the athletic testing for edge rushers.  If a guy is elite, I expect him to jump at least 35+ on the vert and run sub-4.7 in the 40.  If Key felt comfortable putting up 31 inches on the vertical but no comfortable enough to run the 40, then that only means his 40 yard number must be even more disappointing than him vertical jump.

With that said, I still like the player's film too much to give up on him.  Every year we see 1-2 guys test extremely poorly but then go on to have pro-bowl careers.  My 2 guys from this draft where I'm still high on their pro potential even after poor days at the combine are ARDEN KEY and TIM SETTLE.  I still have faith that they are pro-bowl caliber players in the NFL even with extremely bad combines.

Tim Settle is a 330-pounder. Him not posting great numbers is understandable. Key not doing it is a problem with all of the other red flags in his background. Nobody doubts his talent, but I'm not taking a chance on his character.

[VanS]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Tim Settle is a 330-pounder. Him not posting great numbers is understandable. Key not doing it is a problem with all of the other red flags in his background. Nobody doubts his talent, but I'm not taking a chance on his character.

True.  But he also looked bad during the positional drills.  He also didn't look like he worked on his body.  Even if I given him the benefit of the doubt based on his size, he still had a relatively poor combine.

Nonetheless, his film is really good.  And several of the very best players in the NFL right now (i.e. Antonio Brown) had bad combine performances but still went on to have stellar pro careers.  I think Tim Settle and Arden Key can do that.