Broncos Sign QB Case Keenum

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

These teams were having top picks for years 4 or 5. For us this is our first year since 2011. I will say loving this off season.  It's a great mix of veterans and draft picks I just want the rt from miami.

JAX is the only team that’s been as bad as you describe.  

NO has picked in the 12-20 range all 4 years and Chargers had the 15 and 25 picks in 2014-15.  Draft position doesn’t explain their success.   It certainly doesn’t guarantee our failures to the degree Elway’s experienced.   Not even close.    

[iLikeDefense]

Just now, Broncofan said:

JAX is the only team that’s been as bad as you describe.  

NO has picked in the 12-20 range all 4 years and Chargers had the 15 and 25 picks in 2014-15.  Draft position doesn’t explain their success.   It certainly doesn’t guarantee our failures to the degree Elway’s experienced.   Not even close.    

I gotta say the chargers picking really high the past two years has helped them. They still didn’t make the playoffs but they certainly can this season. Draft position helps only if you hit on those high picks. 

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

I gotta say the chargers picking really high the past two years has helped them. They still didn’t make the playoffs but they certainly can this season. Draft position helps only if you hit on those high picks. 

And even then it took 2 years.   That’s a far more realistic goal for us.  That’s the big message.   Going hard for 2018 esp with cap resources just makes the return to true contention longer. And yes you need to hit on the draft. 

But not just Rd1.  Day 2 really makes a huge difference.  Whiffing Day 1 is a disaster to roster building which I get is your point.   But our Day 1 whiffs with Sly and Lynch and our Day 2 whiffs killed us over time.   LAC’s picks of Feeney Rd3 and Lamp Rd2 and Desmond King Rd5 are transformative to their OL and secondary.   We need that but Elway has to change his Day 2 MO.  We’ll see.  

Edited March 18, 2018 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

Guys lets get  smart 

We are getting either Rosen or Darnold  two of the more surpreme talents we've seen the last,decade.

If that fails we are either getting Allen a player similar to wentz. Defillipo a coaching canidate for us will coach him.

If that fails we have Mayfield who is a better longterm similar player to Case Keenum. Defillipo said Keenum earned himself a lot of money,he speaked highly of him.

[germ-x]

53 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Guys lets get  smart 

We are getting either Rosen or Darnold  two of the more surpreme talents we've seen the last,decade.

If that fails we are either getting Allen a player similar to wentz. Defillipo a coaching canidate for us will coach him.

If that fails we have Mayfield who is a better longterm similar player to Case Keenum. Defillipo said Keenum earned himself a lot of money,he speaked highly of him.

I hope your right I want Darnold or Allen.  I’d be pleasantly surprised if Denver goes QB, though.

Looking at it now, Elway probably made the right move with Keenum, but I still hope if (and that’s a big IF) a QB gets to #5 they take him.

Word out now is that the first 3 picks of the draft will be QBs.  That would have left Denver taking whoever was left.

[jsthomp2007]

I think Keenum was the most conservative signing made.  You get a lot of from him.  If Keenum is just mildly good then you get a bridge to the franchise QB, and your eventual long-term solution at backup QB.  Or, if Keenum plays like he did last year and the Broncos are 13-3, you have a starter for the next 3-4 years till you find your long-term solution.  

[jsthomp2007]

If Keenum plays like crap as a starter...you still have a good backup QB solution, because I think he can be Bubby and win you 3-4 games if you need it.  

[jsthomp2007]

Plus, if you look at next year's QB class...I think it looks way better than this year's.  Jacob Eason was studly before Fromm took over for GA...glad he transferred to UW where he can sling it in the Pac-12.  I would not mind taking him in next year's draft.  I am not too sure about the Mizzu kid, but he appears to be a rather big QB.  

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019QB.php

 

 

[broncos67]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Guys lets get  smart 

We are getting either Rosen or Darnold  two of the more surpreme talents we've seen the last,decade.

If that fails we are either getting Allen a player similar to wentz. Defillipo a coaching canidate for us will coach him.

If that fails we have Mayfield who is a better longterm similar player to Case Keenum. Defillipo said Keenum earned himself a lot of money,he speaked highly of him.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. Darnold is going #1 overall, I feel pretty safe saying that. Rosen might go #2. Allen will go #3. If Baker Mayfield is similar to an undrafted player (Keenum) I want no part of him at 4.

Denver would be well served to take someone like Bradley Chubb. He's going to be incredible.

[Scoundrel]

5 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. Darnold is going #1 overall, I feel pretty safe saying that. Rosen might go #2. Allen will go #3. If Baker Mayfield is similar to an undrafted player (Keenum) I want no part of him at 4.

Denver would be well served to take someone like Bradley Chubb. He's going to be incredible.

So if someone was similar to Rod Smith or Chris Harris Jr you wouldn’t take them early? Oh please. Draft position has nothing to do with talent. Weak logic on your part. Baker is more talented than Keenum anyways.

[germ-x]

23 minutes ago, Counselor said:

So if someone was similar to Rod Smith or Chris Harris Jr you wouldn’t take them early? Oh please. Draft position has nothing to do with talent. Weak logic on your part. Baker is more talented than Keenum anyways.

In the case of Rod Smith, no, I wouldn’t use a top 10 pick on an undersized and slow WR.

[Broncofan]

36 minutes ago, Counselor said:

So if someone was similar to Rod Smith or Chris Harris Jr you wouldn’t take them early? Oh please. Draft position has nothing to do with talent. Weak logic on your part. Baker is more talented than Keenum anyways.

 

11 minutes ago, germ-x said:

In the case of Rod Smith, no, I wouldn’t use a top 10 pick on an undersized and slow WR.

To be fair, too, if Elway was that convinced, he'd have spent a Rd3 pick on either guy.  Elway loves taking Rd2-3 guys about 2+ rounds before anyone else has them pegged, and he still got Harris as a UDFA (Smith wasn't his era pick, obv).   Elway is taking Mayfield if he thinks he's the #5 overall guy on the board (and yes, he's factoring in the QB effect here, only way you can make that argument IMO).  I'm not there, but let's not stretch the argument on both sides too far.

Both Smith and Harris were amazing calls....but let's not let outcome dictate how you go about the process, either.  Then you should include all the UDFA's taken by Elway in that equation, and obviously that's a non-starter.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

15 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

To be fair, too, if Elway was that convinced, he'd have spent a Rd3 pick on either guy.  Elway loves taking Rd2-3 guys about 2+ rounds before anyone else has them pegged, and he still got Harris as a UDFA (Smith wasn't his era pick, obv).   Elway is taking Mayfield if he thinks he's the #5 overall guy on the board (and yes, he's factoring in the QB effect here, only way you can make that argument IMO).  I'm not there, but let's not stretch the argument on both sides too far.

Both Smith and Harris were amazing calls....but let's not let outcome dictate how you go about the process, either.  Then you should include all the UDFA's taken by Elway in that equation, and obviously that's a non-starter.

Haha, I know, I was just saying.  There was a reason they weren’t selected where there production in hindsight would’ve put them.  In Smith’s case he was short, slow, and from a small college.  There will always be guys that get in the right situation or are just better players than the physical measurables indicate.  Smith is a great example of both.

In the case of Mayfield, I’m still not sold.  Undersized and from a gimmick offense, Riley often dictated his throws pre-snap.  Love his instincts and what not, but he also isn’t the athlete he’s made out to be (Russell Wilson).  I remember reading a stat that I’ll have to try and find, but he was  also the most well protected QB in college football over the last 2 years....which I think is something he’d need in the NFL and as we all know that isn’t a guarantee.

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Haha, I know, I was just saying.  There was a reason they weren’t selected where there production in hindsight would’ve put them.  In Smith’s case he was short, slow, and from a small college.  There will always be guys that get in the right situation or are just better players than the physical measurables indicate.  Smith is a great example of both.

In the case of Mayfield, I’m still not sold.  Undersized and from a gimmick offense, Riley often dictated his throws pre-snap.  Love his instincts and what not, but he also isn’t the athlete he’s made out to be (Russell Wilson).  I remember reading a stat that I’ll have to try and find, but he was  also the most well protected QB in college football over the last 2 years....which I think is something he’d need in the NFL and as we all know that isn’t a guarantee.

Yeah that’s my issue in a nutshell with Mayfield.  Wish we could see more of him having to make NFL-window throws or throwing guys open in contested space.   We also know he’s not elite athletically from the Combine (although the arrest with a cop in body armor catching him at the scene when he tried to flee hinted at this lol) so the Q of what happens when the D physical skills are so much faster bigger and more agile in short spaces comes up.

There’s a reason why Jets moved up to 1.3  from 1.6 they clearly see a drop between 3rd and 4th QB.   Maybe Mayfield they prefer more than Allen but there’s a clear gap.   Now they also wanted to make sure BUF didn’t leapfrog them and watch 4 QB go in first 5 picks worst case but 1.3 means they get a top 3 QB.  Doesn’t mean their evaluation is better than ours but the fact that multiple teams called on IND shows the Jets weren’t alone in their evaluation.  

Edited March 18, 2018 by Broncofan

[Scoundrel]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah that’s my issue in a nutshell with Mayfield.  Wish we could see more of him having to make NFL-window throws or throwing guys open in contested space.   We also know he’s not elite athletically from the Combine (although the arrest with a cop in body armor racking him definitely hinted at this lol) so the Q of what happens when the D physical skills are so much faster bigger and more agile in short spaces comes up.

There’s a reason why Jets moved up to 1.3  from 1.6 they clearly see a drop between 3rd and 4th QB.   Maybe Mayfield they prefer more than Allen but there’s a clear gap.   Now they also wanted to make sure BUF didn’t leapfrog them and watch 4 QB go in first 5 picks worst case but 1.3 means they get a top 3 QB.  Doesn’t mean their evaluation is better than ours but the fact that multiple teams called on IND shows the Jets weren’t alone in their evaluation.  

They didn’t move up because of a gap between 3 and 4. There was no guarantee that one of the top 4 would be there at 6. They beat a division rival to move up to 3. Denver could have been the fourth spot for a QB right in front of them.