Broncos Sign QB Case Keenum

[vike daddy]

3 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Case seems like a really cool dude...

Case IS a good guy! totally an anti-diva, non-arrogant type. a real team member. halfway through our season this last year, when it was unknown whether we would ride with Case the rest of the year or Bradford come come back, many players publicly stated how comfortable and supportive they were of Keenum in the huddle. the guy gives it 110% all the time and will definitely do so again with the Broncos.

character concerns are not a concern.

[BroncoBruin]

Case really seems to handle pressure well and he is pretty slippery around contact. It’s almost the complete antithesis to Siemian. That’s 4-5 extra first downs a game even if the offensive line doesn’t improve. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by BroncoBruin

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

I'd love to trade down a few places - get an extra pick and still get Nelson.

If we stay at 1.5 and Chubb drops I would grab him instead of Nelson

There's an argument to be made for that. IMO though they'd opt for Nelson if both were available for a few reasons. 1. He's a bit light for a DE in our scheme    2. We've got Walker on the bench that should benefit this year from a year of NFL weight rooms, etc. to pack on 10+ pounds of muscle. and 3. OL is probably our biggest need right now.

[germ-x]

24 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

There's an argument to be made for that. IMO though they'd opt for Nelson if both were available for a few reasons. 1. He's a bit light for a DE in our scheme    2. We've got Walker on the bench that should benefit this year from a year of NFL weight rooms, etc. to pack on 10+ pounds of muscle. and 3. OL is probably our biggest need right now.

But edge rushers impact the game so much more than OGs.  Chubb from a physique standpoint is almost identical to Joey Bosa, but happens to be more athletic.  Chubb’s also one of the best run defending DEs to come out in a while.

No one thought the Chargers would take Bosa at #3 because he didn’t fit their 3/4 scheme, I don’t think they’re regretting that pick now.

[AKRNA]

9 minutes ago, germ-x said:

But edge rushers impact the game so much more than OGs.  Chubb from a physique standpoint is almost identical to Joey Bosa, but happens to be more athletic.  Chubb’s also one of the best run defending DEs to come out in a while.

No one thought the Chargers would take Bosa at #3 because he didn’t fit their 3/4 scheme, I don’t think they’re regretting that pick now.

I don't really agree with that. IMO the OL guys that can negate a pass rush are equally valuable.

Anyway, we still need OL far more than DE at this time.

[thebestever6]

17 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I don't really agree with that. IMO the OL guys that can negate a pass rush are equally valuable.

Anyway, we still need OL far more than DE at this time.

I agree I don't want elway to think keemum is elusive enough to survive a season with no fixes.  Also please no stephenson or watson gosh they are bad. They both played like they crapped themselves.

[germ-x]

17 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I don't really agree with that. IMO the OL guys that can negate a pass rush are equally valuable.

Anyway, we still need OL far more than DE at this time.

I’ll have to agree to disagree, especially when looking at the value of the draft selection.

[jsthomp2007]

If the Colts take Nelson over Chubb and our QB prospects are off the board, and Saquon is gone...how could you not take Chubb?  You'd have chance to get Hernandez later.  And, it seems like a rather good class of linemen in this year's draft to begin with...the Broncos should have a haul of offensive linemen to choose from in this draft.  And, RBs..should be a good draft for the Broncos in fitting needs...with some questions answered at QB....getting Chubb into the pass rush mix would be amazing I think.  Him, Von, a healthy Ray, Barrett, Shelby, and Wolfe...and our DL is as dominant as any in the league...including the Eagles.  

[Broncofan]

26 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

If the Colts take Nelson over Chubb and our QB prospects are off the board, and Saquon is gone...how could you not take Chubb?  You'd have chance to get Hernandez later.  And, it seems like a rather good class of linemen in this year's draft to begin with...the Broncos should have a haul of offensive linemen to choose from in this draft.  And, RBs..should be a good draft for the Broncos in fitting needs...with some questions answered at QB....getting Chubb into the pass rush mix would be amazing I think.  Him, Von, a healthy Ray, Barrett, Shelby, and Wolfe...and our DL is as dominant as any in the league...including the Eagles.  

There  are good arguments for Chubb - but keep in mind that Will Hernandez is projected to go top 25 at this stage.  Maybe he falls, but I don't think you can project Hernandez to us at 2.7 with confidence.  

The argument for Nelson is in his elite ceiling and incredibly high floor.   I don't agree with the notion that Chubb's position is less impactful, or less valuable.   It's probably the most impactful position you have outside of EDGE on D IMO, and as important as CB.   It's why losing Malik Jackson really hurt us in 2016.  My only concern is that Chubb isn't quite the athlete that Joey Bosa was.   Bosa's motor, hand-work and his shot-area burst are off the charts.    Now Chubb's no slouch.   But he's not a Bosa.  Chubb was thought to be a Derek Barnett type off his tape, partly because he was so smooth and had no wasted effort, his athleticism wasn't as apparent - but his 40 time, vert & broad show him more to be a Clowney type.   But like Clowney, he doesn't have the same short-area burst and quickness that Bosa does, and that shows up on tape and in the Combine.   In those cases, motor and hand-work are key to overcome this to get to the Bosa levels of elite play.   Chubb's handwork is good, so there's a real hope this will make up for the lack of elite short-area agility.  He's definitely got the technique and motor, his film really shows little wasted effort. 

I really like Chubb a lot.  I believe Nelson is the best overall prospect talent-wise.   But I can't argue Chubb either (although if he was Bosa V2, then I'd easily put him #1 in this class on talent alone).  To me it's a win-win scenario.  I have Darnold/Rosen, Barkley, Nelson & Chubb as my top 5 prospects.  If we don't go QB, I totally get the appeal for trading down if we don't get QB, but I have to say I'd have no problem with us taking any one of those 5 guys (but if Darnold/Rosen is available at 1.5 I'd go there first - unlike 2 months ago, though, I see a top 5 tier in talent, so I believe we are in the sweet spot skill-wise - the argument to trade back is either to try and get Nelson later, as he could fall the most, given G positional devaluation, or our search to get QB but at better value, which gets iffier given the pool of QB's aren't nearly as certain IMO, and how far you could drop back to get them, is far from certain).

Edited March 16, 2018 by Broncofan

[champ11]

I really think this roster needs impact players at every position other than C and S. When it comes to draft I don't even think you can say we need OG more than DE because the whole roster just needs an infusion of quality talent. 

Having two great/elite pass rushers is the #2 key behind QB play when competing for a Super Bowl, IMO. 

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I really think this roster needs impact players at every position other than C and S. When it comes to draft I don't even think you can say we need OG more than DE because the whole roster just needs an infusion of quality talent. 

Having two great/elite pass rushers is the #2 key behind QB play when competing for a Super Bowl, IMO. 

I agree wholeheartedly we have to get out of using need over talent as the argument, esp. round 1.  We did that last year, and 2016 with Lynch.   And I'd argue we did with Sly Williams, much to our detriment (yes he was on our SB winning team, but he wasn't a key piece, he was along for the ride.  Totally same situtation in TEN).    Especially in the top tier, the gaps in talent with overall BPA are just so much wider.   As you drop down in the draft, the talent argument is much smaller, need as tiebreaker is more justifiable.   Frankly, I'd even extend the exemption for us this draft only applies to S, I wouldn't even rule out C - because our future seems solid with 3 future assets with high ceilings and promising starts (although Carter is all about projection) locked up for a while cheaply.     Paradis we don't even know if he'll be with us next year - or if he's worth extending (2015-16 version absolutely, 2017 not at all).     

That's the argument to trade back, and it's tempting for sure given our talent poor roster depth.    If we don't have Darnold & Rosen, I was unsure if we had 3 other guys worth staying at 1.5 that would justify it.  If we don't have a shot at Rosen/Darnold, I won't argue the reasoning to trade back to get say 1.12 & 1.22 (BUF might be aiming higher TBH and could give up more ammo to do that), but I do think staying at 1.5 for Chubb/Nelson (I would be floored if Barkley made it past 1.3) is justifiable.   

Edited March 16, 2018 by Broncofan

[champ11]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

I agree wholeheartedly we have to get out of using need over talent.   Especially in the top tier, as you drop down in the draft, the talent argument is much smaller, need as tiebreaker is more justifiable.   Frankly, I'd even extend the exemption only applies to S - because our future seems solid with 3 future assets with high ceilings and promising starts (although Carter is all about projection) locked up for a while cheaply.     Paradis we don't even know if he'll be with us next year - or if he's worth extending (2015-16 version absolutely, 2017 not at all).     

That's the argument to trade back, and it's tempting for sure given our talent poor roster depth.    If we don't have Darnold & Rosen, I was unsure if we had 3 other guys worth staying at 1.5 that would justify it.  If we don't have a shot at Rosen/Darnold, I won't argue the reasoning to trade back to get say 1.12 & 1.22 (BUF might be aiming higher TBH and could give up more ammo to do that), but I do think staying at 1.5 for Chubb/Nelson (I would be floored if Barkley made it past 1.3) is justifiable.   

I agree. I just said S and C because those are literally the only two positions we can feel good about the starters and the depth. Paradis + McGovern is solid this year. It's sad, really. 

[Broncofan]

13 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I agree. I just said S and C because those are literally the only two positions we can feel good about the starters and the depth. Paradis + McGovern is solid this year. It's sad, really. 

Yup, it's kinda bleak.   I haven't been around as long as many of you, only since 2013, so it's telling my takes have gone from @AKRNA styled glass half-full takes to @AnAngryAmerican's half-empty takes.   I am definitely a guy who would rather be a hair too hard on my team than too soft, as I think homerism is the biggest obstacle to good discussion and learning for a fanbase.   But I remember how hard I argued for us winning the SB in 2015 in FF Main Forum when literally no one gave us a shot (woohoo), and how much I argued that we could still make it work in 2016 (oops).    I look at the takes I have now, and I'm struck at the difference in our lack of talent and our cap situation worsening vs. the rest of the league.     

Even when we knew it was a tall order without Peyton in 2016, we had real reasons for optimism.   Now we have to use "if this guy works  at QB AND this guy works at RT and this guy works at CB (hopeful there) we can find a 3rd WR/TE out in FA....AND we hit on all our first 3 rounds in the draft, maybe we can turn this around (when we've not hit on 1 guy as a real difference maker on Day 2 since 2011, although hopefully Simmons finally breaks that streak)....soon".    No one argues the point that we aren't realistic 2018 contenders.   Gah.

In the end, it comes down whether our draft philosophy changes enough.   We all said last year's draft was make or break - it's still 1 year too soon to pass judgment, but man, we look broken on that count so far.  We have to start nailing the Day 2 picks.   It would be great if we could let Elway take a 1-day vacation on Day 2.  

Edited March 16, 2018 by Broncofan

[champ11]

17 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Yup, it's kinda bleak.   I haven't been around as long as many of you, only since 2013, so it's telling my takes have gone from @AKRNA styled glass half-full takes to @AnAngryAmerican's half-empty takes.   I am definitely a guy who would rather be a hair too hard on my team than too soft, as I think homerism is the biggest obstacle to good discussion and learning for a fanbase.   But I remember how hard I argued for us winning the SB in 2015 in FF Main Forum when literally no one gave us a shot (woohoo), and how much I argued that we could still make it work in 2016 (oops).    I look at the takes I have now, and I'm struck at the difference in our lack of talent and our cap situation worsening vs. the rest of the league.     

Even when we knew it was a tall order without Peyton in 2016, we had real reasons for optimism.   Now we have to use "if this guy works  at QB AND this guy works at RT and this guy works at CB (hopeful there) we can find a 3rd WR/TE out in FA....AND we hit on all our first 3 rounds in the draft, maybe we can turn this around (when we've not hit on 1 guy as a real difference maker on Day 2 since 2011, although hopefully Simmons finally breaks that streak)....soon".    No one argues the point that we aren't realistic 2018 contenders.   Gah.

In the end, it comes down whether our draft philosophy changes enough.   We all said last year's draft was make or break - it's still 1 year too soon to pass judgment, but man, we look broken on that count so far.  We have to start nailing the Day 2 picks.   It would be great if we could let Elway take a 1-day vacation on Day 2.  

We need a playmaker so bad man. We need an electric player in the offense again. Maybe that's my number one need since this offense has sucked to watch for three years. It'd at least give us some entertainment 

[Broncofan]

22 minutes ago, champ11 said:

We need a playmaker so bad man. We need an electric player in the offense again. Maybe that's my number one need since this offense has sucked to watch for three years. It'd at least give us some entertainment 

Sony Michel at 2.7 would be my dream.   DJ Moore sadly won’t be there imo.  Only he or Sutton I’d think about at 2.7.  The WR have interesting guys in the 50+ overall range though so 3.8 and 3.99 and even 4.5 are in play.   Just plz no insane physical tools - zero football skills guys Elway.  I hope we can move up to get more Rd 3-4 guys from Rd5+ if Elway promises to actually take football talent guys instead of physical tool guys.  

Edited March 16, 2018 by Broncofan