Eric dunn Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, swede700 said: But, they actually need to find one. The QBs that can make up for scheme deficiencies are few and far between. As we've seen in our own history, Brett Favre could do that...but Daunte Culpepper could not, Tarvaris could not, Ponder could not...and I'm not even sure Teddy could do that. YES! That’s my point we need to find one. Won’t be easy and the odds aren’t great. But if we want to win a super bowl I think that’s the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Kirk Cousins is a free agent after next season. He is going to want to play so his value is high for his next bite off the apple. If the Vikings draft a QB in the first round (or even later), that guy looks good in OTAs, and the Vikings make it clear that staying in Minnesota means working as a backup to prepare the young QB to play then I would be shocked if Cousins refused to waive his no trade clause. He wants to play next year and sign a contract after the new round of TV deals are signed. I don't hate Kirk Cousins as QB. I would put an offer on the table to extend him to a team friendly 4-5 year extension. If he takes it, that is great. In the very likely scenario he is not interested I would look hard for another QB that gives the team some control beyond next year and trade Kirk Cousins. If he refuses to waive the no-trade clause he can sulk on the bench about the millions he is losing on his next contract by not getting to play. He could sit there and think about the millions he turned down when he refused to extend his contract before the new CBA and TV deals. I really think that he would accept a trade to a team that would start him and that he would then play out the year for that team and sign a new record contract after the TV deals come in when future cap projections are full of promise. My opinion is that Cousins will the QB for the 2020 season, at minimum. Regardless of who we draft. No rookie, maybe outside of Burrow(ain’t happening) would start over Kirk. I think the ideal scenario is trade up for Tua, unless he slips OR take a guy late 1st-2nd. Possibly even trade back up into the later part of the 1st for a guy like Jordan Love / Eason in hopes of them developing in a year when Kirks contract expires. The benefit to drafting one this year is we get to develop him for a year, a luxury that most teams drafting a QB in the 1st round don’t have. And sometimes that year on the bench behind a vet is helpful for a young guy. Edited January 15, 2020 by Eric dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Eric dunn said: My opinion is that Cousins will the QB for the 2020 season, at minimum. Regardless of who we draft. No rookie, maybe outside of Burrow(ain’t happening) would start over Kirk. I think the ideal scenario is trade up for Tua, unless he slips OR take a guy late 1st-2nd. Possibly even trade back up into the later part of the 1st for a guy like Jordan Love / Eason in hopes of them developing in a year when Kirks contract expires. The benefit to drafting one this year is we get to develop him for a year, a luxury that most teams drafting a QB in the 1st round don’t have. And sometimes that year on the bench behind a vet is helpful for a young guy. Spielman isn’t touching a QB in this years draft. I have no faith that it’s even on his radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Spielman isn’t touching a QB in this years draft. I have no faith that it’s even on his radar. If there’s no extension for Cousins by the beginning of the league year, I would be shocked if they don’t draft a QB fairly early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Eric dunn said: My opinion is that Cousins will the QB for the 2020 season, at minimum. Regardless of who we draft. No rookie, maybe outside of Burrow(ain’t happening) would start over Kirk. I think the ideal scenario is trade up for Tua, unless he slips OR take a guy late 1st-2nd. Possibly even trade back up into the later part of the 1st for a guy like Jordan Love / Eason in hopes of them developing in a year when Kirks contract expires. The benefit to drafting one this year is we get to develop him for a year, a luxury that most teams drafting a QB in the 1st round don’t have. And sometimes that year on the bench behind a vet is helpful for a young guy. I think you are probably right about that and I like your general plan. I simply would not constrain the plan to Cousins starting this year. There are possibilities that he is not. Like I said, I wouldn't be looking to trade Cousins until there is a new got brought in (not easy) and that new guy earns the starting job in OTAs (also not likely). Even after that, there would need to be another team at that point in the offseason willing to take on Cousins (this one is more likely as there are always teams that can use a Cousins level QB). So you are probably right but there are examples that make me think it is possible to find a QB in the draft that proves they are worth starting over the guy the team currently has. Look at Carson Wentz beating out Sam Bradford or Russell Wilson proving they should start him over the then recently signed for big money Matt Flynn. You are probably right but I am open to the possibility of good fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: If there’s no extension for Cousins by the beginning of the league year, I would be shocked if they don’t draft a QB fairly early. Why does it have to happen right away? There are other ways to find salary space. I wouldn’t expect the Vikes to be active in FA outside of bringing back some of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Spielman isn’t touching a QB in this years draft. I have no faith that it’s even on his radar. If that’s the case then he isn’t really thinking about the future of this franchise. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t, he's likely drafting for his job. But I think it’s necessary to have some sort of plan in place if we don’t extend Cousins. Which I think there’s a good case for not extending him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Spielman isn’t touching a QB in this years draft. I have no faith that it’s even on his radar. I think it's on his radar, certainly, considering they have no backup QB right now. In fact, they have no QB other than Cousins on the roster once the new league year begins. Unless he signs a futures contract, Browning is a FA and Mannion is also a FA. I wouldn't be surprised at all that it's high on his radar, considering he might want to try something new and actually draft a QB high that won't play. Nothing else has worked, why not try something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Eric dunn said: Possibly even trade back up into the later part of the 1st for a guy like Jordan Love / Eason in hopes of them developing in a year when Kirks contract expires. They're already drafting at pick 25, if they like Love/Eason they'd be better off taking them at 25 instead of giving up additional assets to get back up to pick 26-32. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: They're already drafting at pick 25, if they like Love/Eason they'd be better off taking them at 25 instead of giving up additional assets to get back up to pick 26-32. Well the idea behind that is getting an immediate impact player or BPA and then coming back up for a guy you like. Like maybe sitting put and taking Trevon Diggs. Then trade back up to 31-32 for the QB to get the 5th year option. But yeah I see your logic, if you like a guy just take him. Which I’m fine with also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Eric dunn said: Well the idea behind that is getting an immediate impact player or BPA and then coming back up for a guy you like. Like maybe sitting put and taking Trevon Diggs. Then trade back up to 31-32 for the QB to get the 5th year option. But yeah I see your logic, if you like a guy just take him. Which I’m fine with also. Don't get me wrong I'd love to add two 1st rounders to the 2020 roster. I just think it would be a better use of resources (i.e. keeping our other picks) to just take the QB at 25. The only way I'm moving future picks is for Joe Burrow and the Bengals would be foolish to not select him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 For cap purposes the FO should make a decision on Kirk ASAP. If they want to keep building around him, get him locked up early. Waiting another year is just going to up his cap number. Also by showing him real extension love, they might be able to get him at a reasonable cap number (maybe like 4 years, 100) as he’s made tag/top 5 money 4 years now. Otherwise, just blow it up and build around guys who still have 4 plus years of good football (Hunter/O’Neil/Barr-Kendricks), then make people available for trade 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I don't want to keep saying it but this off-season has so many questions! As fans of a team that's always one year away, it always seems like we're saying every off-season is "just so crucial" or some other cliche. But honestly this one might be the most decidedly influential for this era of Vikings football. Its outcome most likely will determine the job securities of Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman. I've thought about it plenty and have gone back and forth for a while now, and I'm not sure how the FO can look at the state of the team and think now is the time to rebuild, or rather, think that its the right direction to go. It kind of pains me, because, as a fan, I would gladly trash every piece of this team if you told me i could get a Mahomes, Jackson or Watson. However as an actual decision maker in a front office you have no guarantees of that happening and mathematically with the 25th pick in the draft its a near uncertainty. Further, in doing so you are deliberately forgoing the career primes of several Vikings or you are simply pulling them up from the roots and selling them for hope. A rebuild that is focused on scoring a franchise QB is a long and deliberate process that requires accumulating as many draft picks as possible and while that's a direction they can choose to go, I'm not sure I see the reasoning for it. I am no big fan of Cousins tbh, and I personally don't think he has what it takes to win a Superbowl, at least not in the roster building environment of the NFL. But if you're Spielman, can you really move on from a guy that you definitively know is a good QB, who you also have a pretty clear idea of what he needs to succeed? It's a tough choice really, because in order to make the move you need to make so this roster has a real chance at going for it, you have to extend Cousins to lower his cap hit...you are tethered to him now and it could put you in purgatory, but I don't really know how you decide to give up on this roster and tear the whole thing down because you're jealous of Patrick Mahomes coming back from down 24. Sorry for the long post...and the bad news I guess, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, pacman5252 said: For cap purposes the FO should make a decision on Kirk ASAP. If they want to keep building around him, get him locked up early. Waiting another year is just going to up his cap number. Also by showing him real extension love, they might be able to get him at a reasonable cap number (maybe like 4 years, 100) as he’s made tag/top 5 money 4 years now. Otherwise, just blow it up and build around guys who still have 4 plus years of good football (Hunter/O’Neil/Barr-Kendricks), then make people available for trade That seems fair. Offer him a four year extension at $100 million and if he takes it or comes back with a reasonable counter offer then the team can build around him. If he doesn't, plan for a future without him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Why does it have to happen right away? There are other ways to find salary space. I wouldn’t expect the Vikes to be active in FA outside of bringing back some of their own. Because after two years you should know whether or not Cousins is the guy you want long term. If he’s not, then you need to plan according, but if he is, then extending Cousins is one of the easier ways to create space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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