JDBrocks Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, Cearbhall said: Could be, but not necessarily. A longer term allows more options for how the money is allocated against the cap. I don't think Kirk's decision had anything to do with any of that though. He has a very good agent that is putting Kirk in position to earn as much money as possible. Kirk's agent insisted on the three year deal because he was looking towards the expiration of the CBA and speculating on a greatly increased salary cap in the new CBA. He wanted to be in a position for Kirk to reap the rewards. He probably still does and likely will not have Kirk sign anything this offseason that isn't a great deal for Kirk. i do not expect a contract extension with team friendly features. Kirk Cousins is not Tom Brady. He is about the bottom line, not how the mantle looks. I think that's a fair assessment to a point. I do think that cashing in the way that he did was important at the time, but now that he's made ~$130 million I do think that legacy becomes more important. Part of getting the fully guaranteed contract was getting someone to commit in a way that the Redskins never would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Kirk Cousins is not Tom Brady. He is about the bottom line, not how the mantle looks Say what? Tom Brady takes less money because he's already wealthy and the Pats pay his company under the table. He's not scrimping and saving to make the team better. Cousins has only ever had the chance to negotiate one contract in his career, and he took $2M less per year than the Jets offered in order to sign with Minnesota. Cousins' comparables (Stafford, Garoppolo, Goff, Ryan) are making the essentially the same money or more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Krauser said: Say what? Tom Brady takes less money because he's already wealthy and the Pats pay his company under the table. He's not scrimping and saving to make the team better. Cousins has only ever had the chance to negotiate one contract in his career, and he took $2M less per year than the Jets offered in order to sign with Minnesota. Cousins' comparables (Stafford, Garoppolo, Goff, Ryan) are making the essentially the same money or more. Tom Brady has made way, way less over the course of his career by giving the Patriots a hometown discount. The Patriots are able to use that savings to make their team better. I agree that Cousins could have made more with the Jets, but he wanted the fully guaranteed contract that the Vikings were offering. That is what I believe was being referencesd a few posts up in the thread. Edited January 7, 2020 by Cearbhall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: Apparently if I don't set boundaries you use games against 3 win teams as examples of quality opponents. The 2nd game of the year is never that meaningful (I did mention early season games earlier in the thread), use whatever standard you want, your willing to set the standard wherever it takes for Kirk to be above it. Apparently even if I do give examples that fit your arbitrary criteria (neither the Eagles or Rams games were in week 2, they were both winning teams who went to the playoffs, etc), you ignore them. I'm no big fan of Kirk Cousins, but I don't think it's fair to blame him for the team's shortcomings the last 2 years. He's played well in general, about as good as expected given his track record. He's good enough to win big games, as he showed on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Tom Brady has made way, way less over the course of his career by giving the Patriots a hometown discount. The Patriots are able to use that savings to make their team better. I agree that Cousins could have made more with the Jets, but he wanted the fully guaranteed contract that the Vikings were offering. That is what I believe was being references a few posts up in the thread. Tom can do that because he's making more in endorsements than a non-reduced contract would give him AND his wife makes MORE than him by a good margin. Maybe Kirk will do it down the line but to use Tom Brady and his $600 million net worth as an example is really the outlier and not the best comparison. Edited January 7, 2020 by Vikes_Bolts1228 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: Tom can do that because he's making more in endorsements than a non-reduced contract would give him AND his wife makes MORE than him by a good margin. Maybe Kirk will do it down the line but to use Tom Brady as an example is really the outlier and not the best comparison. For sure, Tom is a huge outlier. There have been other players that have taken hometown discounts too though. Look no further than the Vikings own Anthony Barr. I think the point of my post is being lost though. It has to do with the structure of the contract being set up so its expiration coincides with the new CBA. That was not an accident. Kirk, or at least his agent, wanted a three year deal for a specific reason. Late Add And to your point about Tom being able to afford it: Lets be honest, all players with starting NFL QB salary can afford it. That is what @JDBrocks was pointing out. Now that Cousins has had one of those, his outlook and perspective may be different. I agree with him on that. This isn't the NBA so I don't expect a lot of people taking Tom Brady level deals that help a team being a powerhouse, but players do make long-term decisions that involve more than immediate money. Kirk is a lot less likely to be focused on immediate guaranteed money now. Edited January 7, 2020 by Cearbhall Late Add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 40 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: I'm not sure how you guarantee more money at a lower rate? Fully guaranteed contracts are inflexible. I figured he'd have to give up something to get a full guaranteed contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, JDBrocks said: It was less about him getting cut and more about the inflexibility in the contract. While he wasn't going to be cut, he also wasn't going to restructure to help the Vikings balance the cap and jeopardize his guarantees. Who restructures a three year deal? Now, this next deal is different, but nothing about the three year deal was odd, other than it only being three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Krauser said: Apparently even if I do give examples that fit your arbitrary criteria (neither the Eagles or Rams games were in week 2, they were both winning teams who went to the playoffs, etc), you ignore them. I'm no big fan of Kirk Cousins, but I don't think it's fair to blame him for the team's shortcomings the last 2 years. He's played well in general, about as good as expected given his track record. He's good enough to win big games, as he showed on Sunday. I don't think the Rams game fit my criteria, maybe the Eagles, although I'd say the Cowboys game would have been a better example because it was deeper in the season. I'm not blaming him, I'm pointing out the narrative. And to change the narrative, he has to win important games against good teams. Nobody who thinks Kirk Cousins can't win big games is going to care that he put up good numbers in a game they lost in the 2nd game of last season. Beat the Bears or Packers when the division is on the line. Beat Seattle when playoff positioning is on the line. Win playoff games. Those are the things people notice and will change their minds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, PrplChilPill said: Who restructures a three year deal? Now, this next deal is different, but nothing about the three year deal was odd, other than it only being three years. That was my point... If they extend him they should avoid another fully guaranteed deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Kirk Cousins refused to be paid less than he what he was worth on the open market because of how Washington treated him. It's possible now that he's been treated fairly by an organization, he may be willing to take a little less, but we don't know. It's not like Drew Brees has ever taken less than what he felt he was worth in the marketplace at the time, and he's been on the same team for over a decade. Edited January 7, 2020 by swede700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, swede700 said: Kirk Cousins refused to be paid less than he what he was worth on the open market because of how Washington treated him. It's possible now that he's been treated fairly by an organization, he may be willing to take a little less, but we don't know. It's not like Drew Brees has ever taken less than what he felt he was worth in the marketplace at the time, and he's been on the same team for over a decade. He could have got a little more with the Jets but maybe it wouldn't have amounted too much when you consider in taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: He could have got a little more with the Jets but maybe it wouldn't have amounted too much when you consider in taxes. I don't know what taxes are in New York but my Minnesota taxes are no picnic. I have been seriously looking to establish residence in South Dakota for tax purposes. Drew Brees also could have gotten more money on the open market so he is another example of a player taking a hometown discount. I don't expect that Kirk will take less from the Vikings than he could make elsewhere, but it would be great if he did. As a person gets older they become more and more willing to look at things other than income maximization. That was without doubt true for me. It is great to spend a decade or two in your 20s and 30s maximizing earnings and I wouldn't suggest anything else when you still haven't yet made enough money to make working optional. But eventually you have enough to do pretty much anything you want* and you realize it is more important to be somewhere with people you enjoy doing something that interests you. I, for one, do not miss my days with a big corporation and have never regretted my decision to retire**. Kirk very well may be to the point where he is considering things beyond raw income in making decisions. He has enough money. On the other hand, he is still young. If he wants to maximize his earnings I sure hope nobody would begrudge him. That is well within his rights. *This is different than having enough to do everything, but all the things that are most important to you. **By that, I mean leave the full-time workforce. I still work part-time doing something that I feel good doing. Besides, working helps pay the MN taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Worm Guts said: I'm pointing out the narrative. And to change the narrative, he has to win important games against good teams. Just so we're clear: it's not that you actually care about whether he's actually good in big games or not, you just want the media created, unfounded in analytical data narrative to go away? That's.....quite the take man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since72 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I’m so confused. I’m going to lie down until my head stops spinning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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