Cearbhall Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 49 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Putting up a thread of every mistake a player makes in a game seems like a bad way to analyze his play in the entire game (or season)....... Agreed completely but that didn't stop the Keenum detractors from doing it. All QBs are going to miss open WRs. I do not feel that Kirk is worse than average. Kirk isn't the gamer tha Case was but he is also no Supreme Captain Checkdown Sam Bradford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, PrplChilPill said: Putting up a thread of every mistake a player makes in a game seems like a bad way to analyze his play in the entire game (or season)....... So how else would you analyze his play? This thread shows multiple instances of Kirk specifically holding the offense back. He didn't play well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JDBrocks said: So how else would you analyze his play? This thread shows multiple instances of Kirk specifically holding the offense back. He didn't play well. Looking at every play,, not just the bad ones. How would any QB look if you only showed his bad plays? Edited January 14, 2020 by PrplChilPill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Looking at every play,, not just the bad ones. How would any QB look if you only showed his bad plays? That wasn't really the point of the thread though, was it? It was called missed opportunities. It wasn't an attempt to place all of the blame on Kirk. I think more than anything it highlights a Kirk Cousins trend - that he needs to play better when things around him aren't going well. If he hits on 3 or 4 of those plays highlighted in the thread we might be talking about a rematch with Green Bay instead of how to rebuild a coaching staff or who to draft? Is your contention that Kirk played well, and that those 7 plays were outliers? Where there any incredible plays that stand out to balance the negative ones highlighted in the thread? I've been a Cousins supporter and have said repeatedly that I thought the 2019 Vikings could beat anyone if the players were executing and playing up to their potential. We didn't see that here, against Green Bay, or against Chicago. He needed to play better than he did against SF. I didn't go back and look, but this didn't even show the play where he pretty easily could have run for a first down. He just wasn't making good decisions. Full disclosure - I still think that the Vikings can win a Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: That wasn't really the point of the thread though, was it? It was called missed opportunities. It wasn't an attempt to place all of the blame on Kirk. I think more than anything it highlights a Kirk Cousins trend - that he needs to play better when things around him aren't going well. If he hits on 3 or 4 of those plays highlighted in the thread we might be talking about a rematch with Green Bay instead of how to rebuild a coaching staff or who to draft? Is your contention that Kirk played well, and that those 7 plays were outliers? Where there any incredible plays that stand out to balance the negative ones highlighted in the thread? I've been a Cousins supporter and have said repeatedly that I thought the 2019 Vikings could beat anyone if the players were executing and playing up to their potential. We didn't see that here, against Green Bay, or against Chicago. He needed to play better than he did against SF. I didn't go back and look, but this didn't even show the play where he pretty easily could have run for a first down. He just wasn't making good decisions. Full disclosure - I still think that the Vikings can win a Super Bowl with Kirk Cousins. My contention is the same as the original post.....only looking at bad plays is no way to judge how someone played in a game, or a season. Nothing more or less. I said nothing about how he played, only that only looking at bad plays is no way to judge how he played. I don't even know how that's controversial. If you want to assess his play, look at all the stats.......good and bad. Then compare him to other QBs......and we'll see that he's around 8-14th best at his job on the planet. Whether that is good enough to carry this specific team anywhere meaningful is another discussion though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 34 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: My contention is the same as the original post.....only looking at bad plays is no way to judge how someone played in a game, or a season. Nothing more or less. I said nothing about how he played, only that only looking at bad plays is no way to judge how he played. I don't even know how that's controversial. If you want to assess his play, look at all the stats.......good and bad. Then compare him to other QBs......and we'll see that he's around 8-14th best at his job on the planet. Whether that is good enough to carry this specific team anywhere meaningful is another discussion though. I don't understand why a thread of plays breaking down some poor decisions and throws bothers you, though. It's not like these things didn't happen. They are worth looking at and talking about. Especially when they are representative of one of the Cousins narratives. When Kirk has a bad game, like he did against SF, is it not fair to look at what went wrong and what he could have done better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 How does the old adage go?? "Quarterbacks receive to much glory when their teams win, and to much blame when they lose." I think that applies to Cousins, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JDBrocks said: I don't understand why a thread of plays breaking down some poor decisions and throws bothers you, though. It's not like these things didn't happen. They are worth looking at and talking about. Especially when they are representative of one of the Cousins narratives. When Kirk has a bad game, like he did against SF, is it not fair to look at what went wrong and what he could have done better? It doesn't bother me. It bothers me when people want to have a conversation about a player, and say "see, he is bad"...when only looking at his bad plays. It's no kind of analysis at all. edit to add: to be clear, it doesn't bother me....not in a real sense.....only in the sense of talking about football Edited January 14, 2020 by PrplChilPill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 58 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: It doesn't bother me. It bothers me when people want to have a conversation about a player, and say "see, he is bad"...when only looking at his bad plays. It's no kind of analysis at all. who did that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric dunn Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I went on Vikings ventline today and ranted about getting rid of Kirk. If anyone listened to the Skornorth video today I was at about 30 minutes during the video. My main point was that we don’t want to have to say well Kirk’s our guy so we have to run this system that caters to him. Because Kubiak ain’t always gonna be around. Eventually we’re going to bring in a OC that wants to run his system. Not to say Kirk isn’t scheme flexible. But thru his career we have a big sample size and so far we can say that the Shanahan/Kubiak offense is what he thrives in. Outside of that he’s just not that great. His lack of mobility limits him sometimes quite a bit. I think a more mobile QB would be best. And someone with some pocket presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Outside of 1 random good year from each of Favre, Culpepper and Cunningham, Kirk is by far the best QB the Vikings have had since Tarkenton. 40 years. I just cannot wrap my mind around the idea of getting rid of him. Do you really want to go back to another 40 years of Christian Ponder, Brad Johnson, Tommy Kramer, Case Keenum, Tarvaris Jackson, Wade Wilson, Donovan McNabb, Sam Bradford, Gus Frerotte, Rich Gannon, Jim McMahon and Steve Dils, Kelly Holcomb, Brooks Bollinger, Shaun Hill, Joe Webb, Todd Bouman, Spergon Wynn, Jeff George or Sean Salisbury? We finally, after 40 years of pain, have a chance to have a legitimately good QB for an extended period of time. Giving that up for the extremely slim chance of hitting the lottery on a Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes makes absolutely no sense to me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 3 hours ago, PrplChilPill said: It doesn't bother me. It bothers me when people want to have a conversation about a player, and say "see, he is bad"...when only looking at his bad plays. It's no kind of analysis at all. edit to add: to be clear, it doesn't bother me....not in a real sense.....only in the sense of talking about football This misses the point of Sage's Twitter thread. He didn't present a good or bad grade of Cousins play, he didn't really say anything of that nature. These plays are presented as evidence of what went wrong in the game and presents a few plays that if they had been executed better by the QB they could have at a decidedly positive influence on the game. Instead they went the other direction. It really shouldn't have to be said that this is isolating only a small fraction of the game and isnt designed to say, "this is the sole reason why they lost." But here we are...where that point isnt rhetorical for some reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: Giving that up for the extremely slim chance of hitting the lottery on a Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes makes absolutely no sense to me I'd rather give it up to free the resources to build a team that even a Nick Foles can thrive in. Your QB should either be elite or cheap. Otherwise you're burdened by over paid mediocrity (otherwise known as purgatory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Also, I wasn’t advocating for moving on from Cousins. I was just sharing a thread highlighting opportunities that the Vikings had to stay in the game and to be competitive. The videos also illustrate why Diggs is pretty clearly their best offensive player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 36 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: Giving that up for the extremely slim chance of hitting the lottery on a Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes makes absolutely no sense to me. Kansas City had Alex Smith, a good quarterback, good enough to win 10 games a year and be yearly playoff contenders. He was also the best QB that the Chiefs had for a very long time. They decided that good wasn’t good enough and they went and attacked the position, and got a guy who’ll have them as perennial Super Bowl contenders. Not just playoff contenders. 42 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: I just cannot wrap my mind around the idea of getting rid of him Some people aren’t ok with mediocrity. And that’s what Cousins gives you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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