Free agency reset — Wave 2

[Cearbhall]

2 hours ago, Purplexing said:

You dismiss the fact that Rick The Pickumulator doesn't currently have ten (10) draft picks for 2018 or 2019.  If he doesn't obtain 10 draft picks before a draft ends, The Apocalypse is Nigh.

*Snickersnort*

Spielman does seem to value those seventh round picks more than I do. He often tries to get 7th round picks back in trades. Who knows, maybe Spielman will fail to pull the trigger on a decent backup in order to hold onto a pick was at the end of the seventh round. If that is the case, it is just more ammunition for the people that want to see Spielman fired.

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, Kparty15 said:

That’s what I was thinking as well. There are a ton of good RBs in the draft this year and Latavius Murray is a free agent next year.  Adding a guy with return abilities like Rashaad Penny would be huge.

 

Whether we add a RB, WR, CB to the roster as a returner I want them to actually be able to play their position as well and not just be limited to playing only on special teams like Sherels was and to a lesser extent Patterson.  It almost seems like a wasted roster spot to me and I’d rather fill multiple roles with one player.

I agree. While Sherels has been a great overall ST over the years, he's also taking up a roster spot that could go to a developmental CB.

Id prefer to find a player who can handle both KR and PR duties, and contribute as a RB3, CB4 or WR4.

[vike daddy]

20 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

If that is the case, it is just more ammunition for the people that want to see Spielman fired.

who wants to see Spielman fired....?

[RpMc]

24 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

*Snickersnort*

Spielman does seem to value those seventh round picks more than I do. He often tries to get 7th round picks back in trades. Who knows, maybe Spielman will fail to pull the trigger on a decent backup in order to hold onto a pick was at the end of the seventh round. If that is the case, it is just more ammunition for the people that want to see Spielman fired.

He has said he likes the 7ths to avoid bidding on the priority UDFAs

[PrplChilPill]

I have no idea, how many seventh round picks he's made have been good? I'd rather have more second and third picks, especially on a great team.

[RpMc]

You’re talking like it’s an either/or scenario? Those sevenths probably won’t net you the extra seconds/thirds in trades up. 

[gopherwrestler]

1 hour ago, Cearbhall said:

 

The reality is that the league has tilted more and more towards specialists. I'll be happy if the Vikings can get a solid return man that can handle both punts and kickoffs rather than devoting a separate player to each.

With kickers making 50+ yard field goals at such a high clip, it makes the punters more valuable to pin the team’s deep. 

With the punting game becoming more valuable, it makes having return specialist more valuable to gain some yards to help out that kicker and the offense.

i don’t mind having a specialist, but he should be able to return kicks, punts, and also be able to be in punt coverage at least.

Sherels could do it all, but man is he slow at returning kicks when he is in wide open space.

[Cearbhall]

12 hours ago, vike daddy said:

who wants to see Spielman fired....?

I haven't been keeping score so can't tell you names. There are plenty of fans out there that have called for Spielman's head. Based on my memory, it is mostly related to negligence on the offensive line. Some point to the Ponder selection to which I rebut that Spielman didn't have full control while we were still under the triangle of confusion front office configuration. Others include using first round picks on both Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Bradford when both had knee concerns at the time of that investment.

I don't know, there are always going to be haters. Haters are going to hate.

My opinion: Other than ineptitude bringing in offensive line talent Spielman has done a pretty good job. There have been some misses but there always will be some misses. Spielman has a high enough hit percentage that I am happy with the swings he takes.

[vikestyle]

24 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I haven't been keeping score so can't tell you names. There are plenty of fans out there that have called for Spielman's head. Based on my memory, it is mostly related to negligence on the offensive line. Some point to the Ponder selection to which I rebut that Spielman didn't have full control while we were still under the triangle of confusion front office configuration. Others include using first round picks on both Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Bradford when both had knee concerns at the time of that investment.

I don't know, there are always going to be haters. Haters are going to hate.

My opinion: Other than ineptitude bringing in offensive line talent Spielman has done a pretty good job. There have been some misses but there always will be some misses. Spielman has a high enough hit percentage that I am happy with the swings he takes.

If people actually were mad about the Bridgewater pick because of knee concerns that is hilarious. Coming into the NFL he had not had any kind of knee injuries, but his knees "looked skinny". That line of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. 

[gopherwrestler]

Just now, vikestyle said:

If people actually were mad about the Bridgewater pick because of knee concerns that is hilarious. Coming into the NFL he had not had any kind of knee injuries, but his knees "looked skinny". That line of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. 

Dalvin Cook was also criticized for “skinny knees” 

??‍♀️

 

Its a fact that a  thin lower body frame tends to lead to lower body injuries. It’s not a science by any means, but when I’m evaluating players I do tend to take players builds into consideration. 

[vikestyle]

4 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

Dalvin Cook was also criticized for “skinny knees” 

??‍♀️

 

Its a fact that a  thin lower body frame tends to lead to lower body injuries. It’s not a science by any means, but when I’m evaluating players I do tend to take players builds into consideration. 

While that can be true, things like being overly quad dominant and the angle between the hip, knee, and ankle are a better indicator of future injury. A lack of strength in the quads/hams and lateral hips contribute more to injuries than the actuall knee being "skinny".

[Cearbhall]

3 hours ago, vikestyle said:

If people actually were mad about the Bridgewater pick because of knee concerns that is hilarious. Coming into the NFL he had not had any kind of knee injuries, but his knees "looked skinny". That line of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. 

Personally, I was ecstatic that the Vikings got Bridgewater at the bottom of the first round. If I was running the show I would have picked him with the 7th overall pick and the Vikings would not have Anthony Barr. That said, I don't think it is ridiculous for others to have been concerned about Teddy's skinny knees. In hindsight, it appears those concerns may have had some merit. Without concerns, Teddy would not have been available where the Vikings drafted him. Whether that has anything to do with skinny knees or was all about his poor pro day I do not know.

[vikestyle]

4 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Personally, I was ecstatic that the Vikings got Bridgewater at the bottom of the first round. If I was running the show I would have picked him with the 7th overall pick and the Vikings would not have Anthony Barr. That said, I don't think it is ridiculous for others to have been concerned about Teddy's skinny knees. In hindsight, it appears those concerns may have had some merit. Without concerns, Teddy would not have been available where the Vikings drafted him. Whether that has anything to do with skinny knees or was all about his poor pro day I do not know.

Right. And teams have much more information than we do and they get to physically test these guys. I am in the sports medicine realm (not trying to be a self-proclaimed "expert"), and I can tell you the things that I outlined in my reply to gopherwrestler are generally more concerning than knees just appearing skinny. Again, people more qualified than me got to actually put their hands on him, so there definitely could be concerns. All I'm saying is I don't really think us looking at pictures of somebody's anatomy can let us predict future injury. However, those concerns became a reality so maybe I am wrong.

[byuvike88]

Have you all heard anything on Bennie Logan? Could he be a guy that comes in and provides some interior DL depth?

[Purplexing]

On 3/25/2018 at 9:24 PM, Cearbhall said:

*Snickersnort*

Spielman does seem to value those seventh round picks more than I do. He often tries to get 7th round picks back in trades. Who knows, maybe Spielman will fail to pull the trigger on a decent backup in order to hold onto a pick was at the end of the seventh round. If that is the case, it is just more ammunition for the people that want to see Spielman fired.

Yes, trading back in rd 5 for an early 6th and late 7th is probably a safe approach to increasing the number of camp bodies and odds of one or more late round picks developing into a contributor.  I don't think it's worthwhile to trade back for the sake of accumulating more late round picks if there is a risk of losing/ bypassing a higher ranked pick in rds 1-3 when other teams between the current assigned pick and the 'drop back' pick could draft the targeted player.  Or, dropping down to the top of the next round to intentionally pass a high ranked player to get the next highest rated player of the same position (e.g. OG#6 passed to target OG#7) is dumb because the odds of the lower ranked player contributing is lower, and the added late round pick has very little chance of contributing, although it is greater than zero %. 

I know some 7th round picks by Spielman have contributed, but I can't think of any offhand.  Thielen is an example of getting the same value by risking losing a UDFA to other teams.  In that case, it's best to target some local players (i.e. Gophers, Badgers) to be signed as UDFAs than lessen the odds that an early round pick will contribute by trading back to obtain more 7th round picks.

If 7th round picks are desirable, more teams would hold onto them instead of trading.  Or, more teams would try to trade back to accumulate more 6th and 7th round picks.  Most don't.