Mike Pettine Defense

[Shanedorf]

Where is this guy gonna play in 2018 ?

Montravius Adams 6' 4" 304 lb DL from Auburn

Broke his foot early, had surgery, never got up to speed his rookie season. Packers/Pettine are moving away from 2 gapping the DL and more 1 gap penetration, which plays to Adams strengths. He needs lotsa work, you can read more in the PackersNews write up linked below

Palmy's post- draft write up below:

DL Montravius Adams: Adams was another guy we were very high on in our room and in the fit. Five star kid out of high school and a born freak in every way. Sadly, it has also been what has kinda hurt him over the years as well. It's hard to live up and even harder to take those kids off the field at the college level. Everyone is talking about this kids motor but his pitch count was CRAZY high. Cut that in 1/4 at the next level and lets see what happens. Kid sure is a damn freak though. Very good with the hands also. Don't be shocked if Adams shows better than most do at position played his rookie year. I look for him to be one of those guys that's a much better pro than college player. That staff would pound the table HARD for him also. VERY TELLING. Pending what they ask him to do with the body Adams can play any of them. Another great value pick IMO

JSONline write up from last year, lots of comments from around the league

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/04/29/montravius-adams-what-scouts-say/101036974/

NFC scout: “Got to be a 3-technique. Not a great run defender. He’s got strength. He just doesn’t utilize leverage very well. When it comes to first-step explosion and penetrating and being disruptive, he can do that in spades. He’s probably as good as anybody in the class doing that. He’s tough enough. It’s an awareness thing. He just wants to attack up field. He just has not learned how to take on doubles and know when they’re coming. He’s got a great coach in Randy Garner. He’s as good a D-line coach as you’re going to be around in college football. He’s smart enough. Montravius just has to step up and do it.”

 

AG20 wrote in his post that GB needs another pressure package DL to take Kenny Clark off the field in passing situations. Lowery hasn't been able to offer much there - so the hope is that maybe Montravius Adams can play some quality snaps as the interior DL in pressure situations. Just like Biegel, Adams rookie season was wrecked by his foot surgery and he never recovered, only playing 65 snaps on defense.

[skibrett15]

One trend that we saw at the beginning of last year was rushing 3 vs the good QBs.  The thought process was yes, you are going to give them a lot of time to find someone... but you are forcing them to make a tight throw or to complete 3 short passes in a sequence of downs if they just want to check it down every time.

The Pettine Defense is looking much better built to rush 3 guys with Wilkerson and Daniels and Perry leading the charge.  Conversely, they can also easily rush 5 and bring a mix of matthews and martinez and burks and DBs.  When an offense is expecting you to rush 5, and you hold the back in for pass pro, but you only rush 3... then you have 8v4 in the secondary which is to the defense's advantage.  When you bring 5 and they don't keep the back in... then you have 1 on 1 pass rush opportunities across the board, and you rely on your corners to cover their most punishing threats one on one for a few seconds.

 

If there's a major difference between Capers and Pettine, it's not so much in scheme as it is in tendency.  Everyone and their mother knows the packers would play dime vs 11 personnel on 3rd and 6 and they would rush 5.  They would play coverage on 3rd and 7 and longer, and they would play nickel on 2nd down no matter what you trot out there as far as a heavy package.

If Pettine can legitimately mix things up and be unpredictable... that will be the biggest improvement we see from a "Pettine's Defense" perspective.

[packfanfb]

12 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Where is this guy gonna play in 2018 ?

Montravius Adams 6' 4" 304 lb DL from Auburn

Broke his foot early, had surgery, never got up to speed his rookie season. Packers/Pettine are moving away from 2 gapping the DL and more 1 gap penetration, which plays to Adams strengths. He needs lotsa work, you can read more in the PackersNews write up linked below

Palmy's post- draft write up below:

DL Montravius Adams: Adams was another guy we were very high on in our room and in the fit. Five star kid out of high school and a born freak in every way. Sadly, it has also been what has kinda hurt him over the years as well. It's hard to live up and even harder to take those kids off the field at the college level. Everyone is talking about this kids motor but his pitch count was CRAZY high. Cut that in 1/4 at the next level and lets see what happens. Kid sure is a damn freak though. Very good with the hands also. Don't be shocked if Adams shows better than most do at position played his rookie year. I look for him to be one of those guys that's a much better pro than college player. That staff would pound the table HARD for him also. VERY TELLING. Pending what they ask him to do with the body Adams can play any of them. Another great value pick IMO

JSONline write up from last year, lots of comments from around the league

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/04/29/montravius-adams-what-scouts-say/101036974/

NFC scout: “Got to be a 3-technique. Not a great run defender. He’s got strength. He just doesn’t utilize leverage very well. When it comes to first-step explosion and penetrating and being disruptive, he can do that in spades. He’s probably as good as anybody in the class doing that. He’s tough enough. It’s an awareness thing. He just wants to attack up field. He just has not learned how to take on doubles and know when they’re coming. He’s got a great coach in Randy Garner. He’s as good a D-line coach as you’re going to be around in college football. He’s smart enough. Montravius just has to step up and do it.”

 

AG20 wrote in his post that GB needs another pressure package DL to take Kenny Clark off the field in passing situations. Lowery hasn't been able to offer much there - so the hope is that maybe Montravius Adams can play some quality snaps as the interior DL in pressure situations. Just like Biegel, Adams rookie season was wrecked by his foot surgery and he never recovered, only playing 65 snaps on defense.

Ideally Adams would be the guy. He has the pass rushing potential. Willing to give him a "red shirt" year given the injury. He did come back late last year and showed pretty much nothing, but we'll see if he can improve in year 2. He could be a good interior pressure guy for this defense. Hopefully he's not a bust. 

[squire12]

20 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Where is this guy gonna play in 2018 ?

Montravius Adams 6' 4" 304 lb DL from Auburn

Broke his foot early, had surgery, never got up to speed his rookie season. Packers/Pettine are moving away from 2 gapping the DL and more 1 gap penetration, which plays to Adams strengths. He needs lotsa work, you can read more in the PackersNews write up linked below

Palmy's post- draft write up below:

DL Montravius Adams: Adams was another guy we were very high on in our room and in the fit. Five star kid out of high school and a born freak in every way. Sadly, it has also been what has kinda hurt him over the years as well. It's hard to live up and even harder to take those kids off the field at the college level. Everyone is talking about this kids motor but his pitch count was CRAZY high. Cut that in 1/4 at the next level and lets see what happens. Kid sure is a damn freak though. Very good with the hands also. Don't be shocked if Adams shows better than most do at position played his rookie year. I look for him to be one of those guys that's a much better pro than college player. That staff would pound the table HARD for him also. VERY TELLING. Pending what they ask him to do with the body Adams can play any of them. Another great value pick IMO

JSONline write up from last year, lots of comments from around the league

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/04/29/montravius-adams-what-scouts-say/101036974/

NFC scout: “Got to be a 3-technique. Not a great run defender. He’s got strength. He just doesn’t utilize leverage very well. When it comes to first-step explosion and penetrating and being disruptive, he can do that in spades. He’s probably as good as anybody in the class doing that. He’s tough enough. It’s an awareness thing. He just wants to attack up field. He just has not learned how to take on doubles and know when they’re coming. He’s got a great coach in Randy Garner. He’s as good a D-line coach as you’re going to be around in college football. He’s smart enough. Montravius just has to step up and do it.”

 

AG20 wrote in his post that GB needs another pressure package DL to take Kenny Clark off the field in passing situations. Lowery hasn't been able to offer much there - so the hope is that maybe Montravius Adams can play some quality snaps as the interior DL in pressure situations. Just like Biegel, Adams rookie season was wrecked by his foot surgery and he never recovered, only playing 65 snaps on defense.

I was and still am super high on Adams.  Very tough for him last season with the injury.  Lets see what a full camp and preseason can do. 

 

[Dubz41]

26 minutes ago, squire12 said:

I was and still am super high on Adams.  Very tough for him last season with the injury.  Lets see what a full camp and preseason can do. 

 

Adams will spell the 'A' team rushers with help from Lancaster.

[StinkySauce]

12 hours ago, JBURGE25 said:

That game was the single best and most satisfying game to watch in my Packers fandom until it wasn't

Couldn’t have said it better . . . I’ve been crushed many times during my 4+ decades of fandom, but that was the most painful crushing because of how satisfying it was, as you say, until it wasn’t.  

Worse than 15-1.  

Worse than 4th and 26.

Worse than the loss to the Cowboys in the 1982 or 83 playoffs, and I didn’t get over that one for years. 

Maybe not worse than Rodgers getting hurt last year.  That sucked.

 

[HyponGrey]

15 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

Adams will spell the 'A' team rushers with help from Lancaster.

Pass rush isn't exactly Lancaster's thing. I still expect him to at least make the ps if not the 53.

[Dubz41]

1 hour ago, HyponGrey said:

Pass rush isn't exactly Lancaster's thing. I still expect him to at least make the ps if not the 53.

That's true so far....He did exactly what his coach asked of him- gap control.  If he's allowed to create havoc he will.

[Shanedorf]

Taking a look at snap counts from 2017 for ILBs in Green Bay via Football Outsiders.

GB played about 1075 snaps on defense last year

ILB

Martinez.....  982

J Ryan .....507

JThomas .....107

Some additional snaps at ILB were taken by Josh Jones and some by Burnett, but I have no way of enumerating those. Maybe Mathews had a few as well. With the drafting of Burks and the talk of moving Clay around, we may see fewer snaps from 240lb Jake Ryan. Joe Thomas is already gone after playing as many as 650 snaps in previous seasons. Looks like the ILB position is being re-made. Also interesting to note that Pettine says stopping the pass is Job 1, while the Packers went with an athlete like Oren Burks in the draft and similar body types among the UDFA ILBs they brought in. Maybe that shines a little light on what Pettine is after from the ILB spots going forward.

UDFA ILBs

PARRIS BENNETT, ILB, Syracuse 6-0, 230

MARCUS PORTER, ILB, Fairmont State  6-0, 230

[TheOnlyThing]

41 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Taking a look at snap counts from 2017 for ILBs in Green Bay via Football Outsiders.

GB played about 1075 snaps on defense last year

ILB

Martinez.....  982

J Ryan .....507

JThomas .....107

Some additional snaps at ILB were taken by Josh Jones and some by Burnett, but I have no way of enumerating those. Maybe Mathews had a few as well. With the drafting of Burks and the talk of moving Clay around, we may see fewer snaps from 240lb Jake Ryan. Joe Thomas is already gone after playing as many as 650 snaps in previous seasons. Looks like the ILB position is being re-made. Also interesting to note that Pettine says stopping the pass is Job 1, while the Packers went with an athlete like Oren Burks in the draft and similar body types among the UDFA ILBs they brought in. Maybe that shines a little light on what Pettine is after from the ILB spots going forward.

UDFA ILBs

PARRIS BENNETT, ILB, Syracuse 6-0, 230

MARCUS PORTER, ILB, Fairmont State  6-0, 230

Could not agree more Shane.

The long-term neglect of the inside linebacker position hopefully ceased with the respective departures of the previous GM & DC.

As soon as Pettine came aboard and the prior GM was replaced, I went on record that Jake Ryan would see the greatest decline in snaps in 2018 among returning starters on the D -- barring injury of course.

After all these years, it would be refreshing to see some athleticism at ILB in Green Bay.

Excited about the potential of a Martinez-Burks pairing in the future.

Would be a shock to the system to see positive play out of the ILB position.

 

 

[Packerraymond]

You still have to stop the run, that goal from Dom's defense won't change it Pettine's.

I can guarantee you Burks will not be a better gap filler than Ryan this year. I'm not seeing a big drop from Ryan in snaps. He'll still be the base LB and play 2nd and 3rd and short.

[Ham Sammich]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

You still have to stop the run, that goal from Dom's defense won't change it Pettine's.

I can guarantee you Burks will not be a better gap filler than Ryan this year. I'm not seeing a big drop from Ryan in snaps. He'll still be the base LB and play 2nd and 3rd and short.

Agreed. He was the 18th highest ranked ILB last year in the NFL. He graded in the 80's in PFF. 

"But, all he does is defend against the run. He's limited in what he can do so he grades high."

Who cares? You still need to stop the run and he's pretty darn good at it. 

[Shanedorf]

20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

You still have to stop the run

 

Whoa...do you think Mike Pettine is aware of this  ? 

He said stopping the pass is Job1, he didn't say it was the only job. He's coming to a team that was dismal vs the pass in 2017 and he feels that's the area that needs the most improvement.  Packers allowed an Average Passer Rating of 102 last season, only 0.2 better than the 0-16 Browns who came in dead last

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-average-team-passer-rating

There are very few ( if any) teams that can run the Packers out of the stadium with AR under center -  so it makes sense strategically

Stopping the pass at every level seems like a reasonable area to focus on for the new DC.  As far as snap counts for Jake Ryan, he played about 50% in 2017, might see a bit less this year based on this comment from Pack-to- the- Future's review of Pettine's previous work

http://www.packtothefuture.com/articles/featured-stories/xs-os-mike-pettine-defense-front-7/

"One important thing to look at is that he usually goes with one inside linebacker vs. one back sets"

[skibrett15]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

You still have to stop the run, that goal from Dom's defense won't change it Pettine's.

Not really.  You don't have to stop the run.  You do have tomake it enticing enough that the team would consider running it on first and/or second down so that they possibly only gain 1-2 yards on those plays.  You have to stop the 15+ yard runs which actually move the ball.

At some point, you have to stop the pass to ever get off the field.  The DL's job is to make it possible to stop the run.  The rest of the team should worry about stopping the bigger threat.

Quote

The only aspect of the game that has mattered less than offensive rushing efficiency over the past NFL 16 seasons has been stopping the run.

 

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/8791/establishing-the-run-is-a-recipe-for-losing-in-the-nfl/

[AlexGreen#20]

Running the ball is "easier" from a binary standpoint. You get zero yards passing the ball about 40% of the time. You get zero yards running the ball about 15% of the time IIRC. 

Passing is more efficient because in the 60% of reps you get positive yardage, you get around 12 yards. Running the ball you get about 4 yards. 

Math says to throw the ball.

+++

But, when a defense isn't "properly" aligned, those numbers can shift. 

If a defense is playing a nickel grouping with two safeties back, and the nickel back playing a straight up alignment, they have 6 defenders in run defense. 

If you have 6 blockers, you have 7 gaps that need to be covered. Covering 7 gaps with 6 defenders in such a way to not give up 5+ yards per play is very difficult. It gets even more difficult with pulling guards and FBs rather than TEs in the game, because your gaps move. 

You can say that you want to stop the pass all you want, but you can't give away the run. You have to play fundamentally sound defense, especially against modern alignment teams who give the QB a call of run or pass at the LOS. 

There were several long drives in 2016 where the Packers defense ended up in a dime look against 11 personnel and ended up getting "blitzkrieged" (hurry up offense run against a defense that needs to sub to fix personnel but can't) for long drives.