Saints sign WR Cameron Meredith to offer sheet

[beardown3231]

Bernstein on 670 today- who BTW is an idiot but his Bears sources are usually pretty good- said that the Bears decision to let Meredith walk was strictly medical. Meredith didn't get the surgery done by Bears doctors (or who they recommended, I missed that part), and after the MRI, Bears doctors wouldn't give Pace the approval.

[AZBearsFan]

11 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Bernstein on 670 today- who BTW is an idiot but his Bears sources are usually pretty good- said that the Bears decision to let Meredith walk was strictly medical. Meredith didn't get the surgery done by Bears doctors (or who they recommended, I missed that part), and after the MRI, Bears doctors wouldn't give Pace the approval.

So you’re saying Pace may not be a total baffoon??!?! Let’s see how that plays here in Hot Take Central. 

Meredith was asked about his medical by NO media yesterday (I think) and wasn’t even convincing about his 2018 status. His statement (paraphrasing) was I don’t see why I wouldn’t be ready. Contrast that with Robinson, who says I’ll be 100% for TC. It wouldn’t shock me to see Meredith playing week 1 but also wouldn’t shock me to see him start the year on the PUP list. If he doesn’t get his suddenness back right away then his value in Nagy’s offense would have been largely reduced based upon what we saw in KC, and if that was a legit concern then it’s easy to understand why Pace made the decision he did even if you may not like it. 

[G08]

I hope the Bears' doctors weren't being spiteful little ******* in not clearing his knee.

[beardown3231]

16 minutes ago, G08 said:

I hope the Bears' doctors weren't being spiteful little ******* in not clearing his knee.

I highly doubt it. The Bears doctors get paid whether they perform the operation or not.

[G08]

10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I highly doubt it. The Bears doctors get paid whether they perform the operation or not.

Never underestimate the egos of doctors.

[WindyCity]

Not clearing Meredith is not the issue.

I think may of us would have like to have signed a #3 guy earlier in free agency if Meredith was not in the plans.

Weird choices by Meredith above all that.

[AZBearsFan]

24 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Not clearing Meredith is not the issue.

I think may of us would have like to have signed a #3 guy earlier in free agency if Meredith was not in the plans.

Weird choices by Meredith above all that.

I’m sure they had to consider cost at least at some level, both for 2018 and beyond. Plus they already signed two FA WR to big deals, plus Burton. It’s a stretch IMO to expect that any other FA WR would be anything other than an Inman level move. We can’t just abandon player development at the position out of fear. There were always going to be young players put into roles where they’re getting significant reps - I think that many just assumed that that young player would be Meredith. I’m totally fine with it being a mid-round pick, though it’s pretty clear you feel otherwise. You may find this interesting though: 

Rookie WR with 25+ receptions:

2017: 9 (1 first rounder)

2016: 10 (1 first rounder)

2015: 8 (2 first rounders)

2014: 16 (5 first rounders)

2013: 11 (3 first rounders)

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

It played out in a way that didn't necessarily make immediate sense, which is why we're all still on about it.

 

My feelings are that Pace is sticking to his guns on value. Merideth, if healthy, was clearly someone they wanted. Once the price went up, the risk must have been too high. It sucks, as I loved Cam's story. If there is a comfort in this, it's that Pace clearly has a firm plan on what he feels is worthwhile.

Inman is fine with me as 3.  If our coaching staff is good, they be will be able to roll with what we have even if someone else gets hurt. Take solace in the fact that this is not John Fox's team. 

[Heinz D.]

5 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Bernstein on 670 today- who BTW is an idiot but his Bears sources are usually pretty good- said that the Bears decision to let Meredith walk was strictly medical. Meredith didn't get the surgery done by Bears doctors (or who they recommended, I missed that part), and after the MRI, Bears doctors wouldn't give Pace the approval.

Hopefully it was the money involved up against the medical. It's just really weird, otherwise.

4 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

So you’re saying Pace may not be a total baffoon??!?! Let’s see how that plays here in Hot Take Central. 

Huh? The consensus seems to be that Pace simply doesn't make mistakes. Except with Jeffrey.

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

I think may of us would have like to have signed a #3 guy earlier in free agency if Meredith was not in the plans.

In my case (and I think yours, as well) because of how free agency went down, I assumed WR wouldn't be a high priority in the draft. They'd simply give Meredith a chance, and push that need off until next year (when it's highly doubtful White is there at the start of camp, regardless). 

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Huh? The consensus seems to be that Pace simply doesn't make mistakes. Except with Jeffrey.

Did you not read the last 10 pages or so in this thread in which most at least questioned his not matching Meredith or outright said he botched this? The hot take assumption by the vast majority is that he screwed up without any significant consideration that he may have had legitimate reasons not to match. The Bernstein article (who while he’s a boob seems to be pretty connected at HH) suggests the team saw the medical as problematic. Dan is as critical of Pace as any other talking head in town too so it’s not as though he’s an apologist. 

Reality is that until we know how healthy Meredith is and what he can do going forward nobody has any idea whether he screwed this up or not. So many seem to need to point fingers right away for some reason though... 

[ColGerBear]

I gave it a little more thought...

Meredith tender was an insurance, nothing more. If Pace misses out on Robinson and Gabriel he would have matched I think. But it gave him some insights into Meredith knee as well.

If a team would offer him 8 per or more other doctors evaluation of the knee wouldn't be bad.

If Meredith would accept anything below 5 per for 3 years or more Meredith probably isn't confident about his knee himself.

Getting all this information is nice but does it really influence your decision? If Meredith does not trust his knee Pace would have done the same he did anyway. If Meredith got even more Pace would have done the same thing anyway.

All it offered was a cop out for Pace if he couldn't sign his free agents but that wouldn't mean he would act in the organizations best interest, because his only conclusion from the get go must have been to not sign him.

 

I still think Pace would have gotten the same information if he paid Meredith 2.9m this year, retained a potential top 10 slot WR (IMO) and kept a homegrown guy people were rooting for.

 

What do you think about it?

[AZBearsFan]

1 minute ago, ColGerBear said:

I still think Pace would have gotten the same information if he paid Meredith 2.9m this year, retained a potential top 10 slot WR (IMO) and kept a homegrown guy people were rooting for.

Meredith being from IL or not has had exactly zero impact on my rooting for him to succeed. He could be from Green Bay or Minneapolis or North Korea for all I care. If he’s a Bear I want him to succeed. Period. 

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

Did you not read the last 10 pages or so in this thread in which most at least questioned his not matching Meredith or outright said he botched this? The hot take assumption by the vast majority is that he screwed up without any significant consideration that he may have had legitimate reasons not to match. The Bernstein article (who while he’s a boob seems to be pretty connected at HH) suggests the team saw the medical as problematic. Dan is as critical of Pace as any other talking head in town too so it’s not as though he’s an apologist. 

Reality is that until we know how healthy Meredith is and what he can do going forward nobody has any idea whether he screwed this up or not. So many seem to need to point fingers right away for some reason though... 

You disagree with my point and then confirm it...within the same post. Weird.

And it's incredibly easy to point fingers--the second round tender tender would have been a million more in salary, for a single year. Put it out there, and if Meredith ends up failing a physical, he's gone, and it's done with. Pretty straightforward.

38 minutes ago, ColGerBear said:

If a team would offer him 8 per or more other doctors evaluation of the knee wouldn't be bad.

If Meredith would accept anything below 5 per for 3 years or more Meredith probably isn't confident about his knee himself.

There certainly could be some gray area as to what they're all looking at. The knee isn't good enough right now, or limited in camp, or something. Maybe something the Saints wouldn't be as worried about, or something like that. 

[howru8888]

I've always been of the belief if you make a decision based on talent or value  you should be rewarded or held responsible depending on the results. If the decision not to retain him was made because of the injury then whether he never makes another catch in the league or becomes Jerry Rice i'm fine with the decision.

[AZBearsFan]

28 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

You disagree with my point and then confirm it...within the same post. Weird.

And it's incredibly easy to point fingers--the second round tender tender would have been a million more in salary, for a single year. Put it out there, and if Meredith ends up failing a physical, he's gone, and it's done with. Pretty straightforward.

Not quite sure where I’m confirming your point - I’m not making any assumptions about whether or not Pace got this right. I have no idea whether he did or not. I know that my gut reaction was that I was shocked he didn’t match which certainly suggests I disagreed with it, but I don’t really know enough to draw any fully vetted conclusion about it. You can point whatever fingers you’d like but that’s still happening with only a part of the obviously relevant information. Pace has that missing piece (or at least as much as he can at this point since Meredith is still recovering) and we don’t. Teams put max values on guys all the time. Pace clearly drew his line on Meredith at the lowest tender. Only time will tell if he was right or not. 

I personally would have given Meredith the 2nd round tender knowing what I know, but I don’t know the medical and Pace does. Deferring the benefit of the doubt for me says less about Pace and more about the knowledge Pace has to use in his decision making process. The 2nd round tender while also only $1M more also basically assures he’s on our roster in 2018 at least through camp and if Pace wasn’t sure he can play any role at all for us in 2018 then it makes some sense to not make that more significant commitment to him. That’s a prudent posture to take if you have the knowledge with which to make it. Pace would have it. Adding two starters at WR and a $8M/year receiving only TE certainly suggested he wasn’t comfortable with Meredith’s 2018 status too, even if people largely weren’t looking at it that way at the time. Sure, on the 2nd round tender we could still have cut him with a failed physical but that likely wouldn’t be until August after we’ve seen his recovery through all the way to the point where roster cutdowns would have necessitated a decision be made but that is then after the team had already invested the resources and time in him all offseason and TC. With a scheme and coaching change you can easily see where that time and those reps may be preferred to go to someone with a more clear return on investment to provide. If one was inclined to take Pace’s side in this at the present time they could make a compelling argument.  

Of course, all of that could be totally off base. Pace could simply have just wagered that he could save $1M with the lower tag for whatever purpose (other extensions, anticipated rollover to 2019, etc.) and just guessed wrong, and now he’s scrambling because 2/10 wasn’t in the budget and he grossly misplayed the league-wide need for WR with size and that someone else would be more willing to make a risky signing than he to someone coming off that particular serious injury, and now he’s forced to alter his plans and is in spin central. If one was inclined to assume at the present time that Pace messed up they could make a sound case for that too, especially given his spotty at best FA history at the position.

Taking either posture at this point calls for a lot of assumption, especially since we haven’t yet seen how the rest of the offseason will play out.