3rd Round Pick (88th Overall): Oren Burks [LB; Vanderbilt]

[Leader]

2 hours ago, SSG said:

Tough to rip Thompson when he spent a higher pick on a more athletic player to fill this EXACT role just last year.  Josh Jones who is both faster and stronger was drafted just last year in the 2nd to play that hybrid role.

I'll offer the following - Josh Jones is intended to replace Burnett and Burkes is taking over for Thomas - which combined may (or may not depending on your perspectives) be better for the team overall.

[Leader]

27 minutes ago, craig said:

Critical question is whether guys who are "good athletes" will figure out how to become "good football players".  We'll see how that goes. The hope is that settling down to one position, much will become more automatic and instinctive, and in due time that he'll become a good decision maker.  

Understand the conceptual point your making and just adding the following "caveat" :: if you're playing LB for Vanderbilt University - you're already a good football player. That box an be checked off.

The NFL is nothing but good football players. They're picked and prodded, tested and timed to such a degree that the NFL is literally the pick of the litter. It's the rarefied air of football players. There's still a range of good to great - but you dont get into the NFL w/o being one helluva football player in some regard. All Burks has to prove is how good can he be at this next level. IMO.

[Norm]

12 minutes ago, Leader said:

The NFL is nothing but good football players. They're picked and prodded, tested and timed to such a degree that the NFL is literally the pick of the litter.

Is there really any reason to point this out? It's like saying a terrible NFL QB is elite just because he's in the NFL. 

He means good NFL players, good NFL starters. I think everyone knows that

[Leader]

27 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Is there really any reason to point this out? It's like saying a terrible NFL QB is elite just because he's in the NFL. He means good NFL players, good NFL starters. I think everyone knows that

Apologies Norm. I was just expressing a personal viewpoint and not engaging in point/counterpoint exchange.

I agreed with craigs comment (I've communicated with him for years) and understood his comment w/o your clarification. I was just offering a personal perspective that Burks has already achieved "good football player" levels. All that remained was how good he'd perform at the next level.

Just conversation. Not everything has to be earth shattering, bold or revealing.

Add On Edit: In keeping with my first comment, within the NFL level players - as with everything - there exists a good to great range (and yes, to use your term: some terrible players as well - relatively speaking) - but its my personal opinion that from an athletes perspective to simply get drafted into the NFL is a badge of honor. It's an achievement. When you consider the thousands of players weeded out along the way through competition, injury, tenths of seconds on 40 times or inches on vertical leaps - its one helluva a achievement. Joe Callahan just got let go by the GBPs. I dont know if he'd get your "terrible" designation and dont need to know - but he made it to the NFL. After a whole bunch of work - he got there - and I dont diss him one bit for "failing" to push further up the ladder. As an athlete, he went pretty far as it is. Again - just personal perspective.

 

[SSG]

31 minutes ago, Leader said:

I'll offer the following - Josh Jones is intended to replace Burnett and Burkes is taking over for Thomas - which combined may (or may not depending on your perspectives) be better for the team overall.

That certainly looks to be the case given the investment we made into Burks and the fact that a safety wasn't added. 

We're going to have to wait to see what was best for the team overall.  While Burks is likely an upgrade over Thomas, Jones looks to be a significant downgrade from Burnett given how inept he showed to be in coverage.  Jones certainly played his best football in that hybrid LB role (ie Cincy game). 

Time will tell if we'd have been better off leaving Jones in that Hybrid role and drafting a pure safety. 

[Reaper]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:27 AM, St Vince said:

Yeah that looked bad man.

The first Highlight they showed of Terrell Edmunds not sure if that first name is correct; after being introduced by shazier was of him launching himself like a missile head first with arms to his side hitting someone. Poor choice of highlight given the moment.

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, SSG said:

That certainly looks to be the case given the investment we made into Burks and the fact that a safety wasn't added. 

We're going to have to wait to see what was best for the team overall.  While Burks is likely an upgrade over Thomas, Jones looks to be a significant downgrade from Burnett given how inept he showed to be in coverage.  Jones certainly played his best football in that hybrid LB role (ie Cincy game). 

Time will tell if we'd have been better off leaving Jones in that Hybrid role and drafting a pure safety. 

Agreed.

Jones definitely hit some rough patches - but he was a rookie - so time will tell how he ultimately matches up to Burnett.

 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, SSG said:

That certainly looks to be the case given the investment we made into Burks and the fact that a safety wasn't added. 

We're going to have to wait to see what was best for the team overall.  While Burks is likely an upgrade over Thomas, Jones looks to be a significant downgrade from Burnett given how inept he showed to be in coverage.  Jones certainly played his best football in that hybrid LB role (ie Cincy game). 

Time will tell if we'd have been better off leaving Jones in that Hybrid role and drafting a pure safety. 

I think it depends on formation. In base, I think you'll see Jones at safety but in nickel you'll see Brice back there with Haha and maybe Jones at ILB alongside of Burks or Martinez. Through just a few games last year, Brice's stats were already more impressive than Burnett. I don't think we'll miss him much at all if Brice can stay healthy. Jones is fine at safety if we're primarily using him in the base safety alignment when he can play closer to the LOS and in man coverage. The further off the LOS he goes, the worse he is and last year it looked like he had never played in a zone defense before in his entire life. Luckily, Pettine's system should be a better fit for Jones no matter which position he is playing. 

[Packerraymond]

4 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Felt the same way about the Burks pick.  Didn't see the need with Josh there.

Guessing here that the safety/linebacker role swings more the way of the linebacker with Pettine than it did with Dom. 

While I"m no fan of the pick, I think we really gotta wait and see how Pettine will use both guys.  I have to admit that even I can see a defense that allows Jones to come up near the LOS while Burks is there and can backpedal/run and carry a slot guy or TE deep.....  

Point being, I think there are ways to use both guys effectively...and together.  

This move should tell you Josh Jones is not a hybrid player in Pettine's scheme. He's a safety.

[packfanfb]

44 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

This move should tell you Josh Jones is not a hybrid player in Pettine's scheme. He's a safety.

I could still see him playing some ILB in the nickel next to Burks (or Martinez until Burks is ready)

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

I could still see him playing some ILB in the nickel next to Burks (or Martinez until Burks is ready)

Only way I see that is if Brice goes back to 2016 training camp Brice and we want him on the field with Jones. Otherwise, Jones will play DB, Burks will play nickelbacker.

[vegas492]

16 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

This move should tell you Josh Jones is not a hybrid player in Pettine's scheme. He's a safety.

Yah, that is pretty much what my post said.  

Although, as my post said, I can see a way to put both on the field at the same time.

[Shanedorf]

a little fluff piece on Burks from Larry McCarren

https://m.packers.com/news/video/first-impressions-oren-burks-c640cff5-76bb-4d7f-8f0e-a7aa9c0b973e

[Golfman]

Josh Jones is going to be an upgrade over Burnett, this year. Burnett, often injured, was solid, but unspectacular when he played. He couldn't catch a cold.

Jones as a rookie was tasked with learning two positions, both difficult to grasp in a coverage ILB and SS. Not an easy task to adapt to one of those, but double duty had him thinking and not playing. McCarthy was RAVING about this kid in camp. How bright he was, his athleticism, etc. The second year leap is going to be real for this kid. This is not a position I worry about.

Burks is going to be asked to POSSIBLY play the inside spot on passing downs. He may not win that job this year and that does not make him a bust. He may well turn out to be our version of Deion Jones from Atlanta. Time will tell on this kid. 

Our secondary will be light years better than last year, but will the pass rush hold up it's end of the bargain? I don't want to hear about how many sacks we had either. The rush was not getting home in any consistent basis to make the QB nervous in the pocket last year. That needs to change. 

 

[Golfman]

22 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

a little fluff piece on Burks from Larry McCarren

https://m.packers.com/news/video/first-impressions-oren-burks-c640cff5-76bb-4d7f-8f0e-a7aa9c0b973e

Fluff? He was pretty highly rated going into the draft. No need to downplay him just because he's now a Packer.