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3rd Round Pick (88th Overall): Oren Burks [LB; Vanderbilt]

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42 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

1. Pass deflected did not become a recorded statistic until 2001. Unless you think that Sharper was also a pro bowler and first team all pro in 2000 without defending a pass as well.

2. Nobody is giving up on Jones. There is a difference between not counting on him and giving up on him. 

Sharper stunk in 1998. It was painfully obvious to anyone watching the Packers. What was also obvious was his athletic ability. 

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4 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Sharper stunk in 1998. It was painfully obvious to anyone watching the Packers. What was also obvious was his athletic ability. 

I was 5 in 1998, I don't really remember first hand. I can report that he had 3 defensive TDs and started every game. I have a hard time imagining any rookie who stunk in the 20th century starting every game. 

I also question your memory of his rookie year considering you claimed he didn't defend a single pass. :/

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5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I was 5 in 1998, I don't really remember first hand. I can report that he had 3 defensive TDs and started every game. I have a hard time imagining any rookie who stunk in the 20th century starting every game. 

I also question your memory of his rookie year considering you claimed he didn't defend a single pass. :/

'97 was his rookie year, not '98. He didn't start a single game in '97, his rookie year. I remember quite well how poorly he played. I remember the safety we let go so he could play, correctly point out he wasn't ready for prime time and he was correct. That guy was correct and his name was Eugene Robinson. I remember those years very, very well. 

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Just now, Golfman said:

'97 was his rookie year, not '98. He didn't start a single game in '97, his rookie year. I remember quite well how poorly he played. I remember the safety we let go so he could play, correctly point out he wasn't ready for prime time and he was correct. That guy was correct and his name was Eugene Robinson. I remember those years very, very well. 

You are correct, he didn't start his rookie year. I can't really comment other than that I don't think complete scrubs score 3 defensive TDs as rookies. If we were to just put down every play that both guys had as rookies, Sharper has the top 3 plays.

Also, why the hell am I having this argument with you when the far more logical answer is that the following logic is idiotic:

Darren Sharper was bad as a rookie and good in the following years, therefore Josh Jones will be good in the following years because he was bad as a rookie.

Mostly when players are bad as rookies, they're just bad. Not all the time, but that is the typical outcome. 

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24 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I was 5 in 1998

not to derail this thread further, but wow! I always assumed you were older than me. xD 

I always pictured you as this grizzled veteran scout pouring over film in a smoke-filled room.

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15 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You are correct, he didn't start his rookie year. I can't really comment other than that I don't think complete scrubs score 3 defensive TDs as rookies. If we were to just put down every play that both guys had as rookies, Sharper has the top 3 plays.

Also, why the hell am I having this argument with you when the far more logical answer is that the following logic is idiotic:

Darren Sharper was bad as a rookie and good in the following years, therefore Josh Jones will be good in the following years because he was bad as a rookie.

Mostly when players are bad as rookies, they're just bad. Not all the time, but that is the typical outcome. 

If you want to find someone who lucked into plays as a rookie, go check out the old Packer Marques Anderson.  Here are his stats, really great rookie stats, but man, he stunk!

http://www.nfl.com/player/marquesanderson/2505087/careerstats

And that shouldn't deflate your belief about Sharper...just pointing out THE GUY that I thought stunk who lucked into some serious plays.

 

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RRRR...I don't want to be talking about Darren Sharper in the Oren Burks thread. But he was exasperating and undisciplined on the field. Once I saw him fly in like a missile to knock a fellow defender off of a runner who then scored.

I think he may be, by far, the most productive and talented Packer I was happy to see let go.

How 'bout that Oren Burks kid! Do we know his cleat size yet? Is he shopping at Woodman's or Piggly Wiggly?

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1 hour ago, blueswedeshoes said:

How 'bout that Oren Burks kid! Do we know his cleat size yet?

He has really small hands. 

Some believe they can surmise cleat size based on this info, but others say you have to look at the tape

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41 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

He has really small hands. 

Some believe they can surmise cleat size based on this info, but others say you have to look at the tape

Hope he measures up. For his sake.

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2 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

He has really small hands. 

Some believe they can surmise cleat size based on this info, but others say you have to look at the tape

Does he smell like cabbage? 

Image result for small hands smells like cabbage quote

 

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On 5/6/2018 at 8:12 PM, Golfman said:

'97 was his rookie year, not '98. He didn't start a single game in '97, his rookie year. I remember quite well how poorly he played. I remember the safety we let go so he could play, correctly point out he wasn't ready for prime time and he was correct. That guy was correct and his name was Eugene Robinson. I remember those years very, very well. 

Golf- you are right on with this.  He didn't even get snaps at safety he was so bad his rookie year. They used him a little at CB.  Then someone reads a book of stats and tells you you're wrong.  Unbelievable.  Collins was a big head scratcher when he was drafted, took a couple years for him to get it.  I laugh when people call Jones an abomination and other such superlatives.  He has better stats as a rookie than other guys we took in Packer history.  I agree that keeping him at one position will accelerate his growth and we will hopefully see a big jump this year in his performance. 

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On 5/15/2018 at 2:32 PM, Dubz41 said:

Golf- you are right on with this.  He didn't even get snaps at safety he was so bad his rookie year. They used him a little at CB.  Then someone reads a book of stats and tells you you're wrong.  Unbelievable.  Collins was a big head scratcher when he was drafted, took a couple years for him to get it.  I laugh when people call Jones an abomination and other such superlatives.  He has better stats as a rookie than other guys we took in Packer history.  I agree that keeping him at one position will accelerate his growth and we will hopefully see a big jump this year in his performance. 

When I hear/read a vet like Tramon saying that Pettine's defense will be "simple" and "aggressive", boy, that just plays right into Jones'es game.  When the game slows down and he just reacts without thinking, he could be something special.  Potential blue chipper there.  Lord knows that defense needs some of those guys.

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On 5/6/2018 at 9:17 PM, AlexGreen#20 said:

You are correct, he didn't start his rookie year. I can't really comment other than that I don't think complete scrubs score 3 defensive TDs as rookies. If we were to just put down every play that both guys had as rookies, Sharper has the top 3 plays.

Also, why the hell am I having this argument with you when the far more logical answer is that the following logic is idiotic:

Darren Sharper was bad as a rookie and good in the following years, therefore Josh Jones will be good in the following years because he was bad as a rookie.

Mostly when players are bad as rookies, they're just bad. Not all the time, but that is the typical outcome. 

This is a laughable statement. I mean completely laughable. The reality is not a whole lot of rookies come in and are anywhere close to a finished product. It takes time. Often when a rookie who is not ready has to play the results are poor at best. 

You can do better than this, but when you admit to being 5 years old when arguing in favor of a guy, because you look at a stat line, you sort of lose all respect on the topic. 

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