2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Forge said:

I think that's probably light. The difference between 5 and 9 is only a late second rounder (pick 54/55 by multiple trade value charts). Unless they are just sick of Ramsey, I don't think that gets it done. I think his price is higher than Peters but return, and that's very similar. Maybe our third rather than fourth or 5 & our second for 9, Ramsey and a third. 

I don't know what else would work. Giving up a 2nd and then getting the Jaguars 3rd or something? 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I don't know what else would work. Giving up a 2nd and then getting the Jaguars 3rd or something? 

I think a flip of firsts,  our third for Ramsey is in the ballpark. I could see them ask for a swap of firsts, our second for Ramsey plus their third. That's also the right ballpark to me, especially if they are moving for a quarterback

I don't know why, but I did mess up there swaps. We should pick third, so that slants the value a little more favorable to what we are giving up. Still don't know that the swap and fourth get it done, but a swap and the third is a little stronger

[TecmoSuperJoe]

I hate Seattle more because they didn't beat us like they were supposed to.

[49ers Finest]

12 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Pete Carroll just said he isn't resting his starters this week so the Cardinals have the #1 pick locked up.

Only chance we have of moving up is if the Raiders beat the Broncos tonight. 

Stupid pete carroll, just ruined my wish to santa

[Melbourne 9er]

3 hours ago, Forge said:

I think a flip of firsts,  our third for Ramsey is in the ballpark. I could see them ask for a swap of firsts, our second for Ramsey plus their third. That's also the right ballpark to me, especially if they are moving for a quarterback

I don't know why, but I did mess up there swaps. We should pick third, so that slants the value a little more favorable to what we are giving up. Still don't know that the swap and fourth get it done, but a swap and the third is a little stronger

I don't think we should even contemplate putting our 2nd in there. There are always players that drop to Day 2 and where we sit we could take the best available (for me this would be if Burns, Polite or Sweat drop, even if we pick pass rush with our first) or someone will step up with a decent trade for a player that they covet, especially after thinking about it overnight. We currently only have 5 picks, however I can see us increasing that to 7 or 8 by the end of the draft. High picks at the start of each day are gold (which is why I was very unhappy with the Beathard trade up).

[757-NINER]

With the second pick in 2019 NFL Draft, the San Francisco 49ers select...

 

[mw2noobbuster]

6 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

With the second pick in 2019 NFL Draft, the San Francisco 49ers select...

 

Do we need another interior rusher? 

[John232]

Unless the guy is Warren Sapp or Aaron Donlad, no to a DT. just no. I will freak out. 

[757-NINER]

7 hours ago, mw2noobbuster said:

Do we need another interior rusher? 

We need TALENT. When you're picking this high, you need to select the best TALENT available, not necessarily biggest need.  This team lacks true difference makers. I understand wanting to address the edge. It's a glaring hole. But I'm always in favor of securing the best talent....a difference maker over addressing a need. And I just believe Williams is the best talent in the draft.

I think interior push and disruption is just as important as bending the corner. We get Williams in the first, there are still very good edge prospects you could grab in the second. Sure it creates a logjam currently, as far as DTs but Williams is stout and versatile enough to play virtually anywhere on the line except Leo. He can play nose, 3-Tech or 5-Tech. He can be on the field in base and nickel packages. If we're all in agreement that Thomas is not the edge player they or we envisioned then the worst thing you could do is compound the problem by not adding the best available talent to help alleviate that miss. A  #2 overall pick should be a difference maker. Addressing the positional need while sacrificing talent isn't the way to go about it IMO. Cant get caught up on who's here now but who is the future. Only guys I can see getting second contracts with us among the interior guys in DeFo, Jones and maybe Taylor if he develops. Street is a unknown. He may turnout to be a great find but I seriously doubt he is on Williams level. So in those terms, we're not set there. 

[757-NINER]

2 minutes ago, John232 said:

Unless the guy is Warren Sapp or Aaron Donlad, no to a DT. just no. I will freak out. 

Like I said, it all depends if you think Williams is on that level. Personally, I think so. And technique wise, I think he's just scratching the surface. AND he's only 20...

[J-ALL-DAY]

So Jerry Jones said the starters will "absolutely" be playing on Sunday. Good news, just hope they aren't pulled half way through the game though. I mean it makes sense for that to happen, but still for our sake, we need them to go the entire way. Either that, or hope they get a big enough lead where the back ups can hold on.

Chance of us keeping the 2nd pick just improved. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Welp, Herbert to return for his senior season. That's a blow to our hopes of trading down. Now only two first round QB locks in Haskins and Lock? Maybe Grier?

Not good, not good at all. 

[Forge]

18 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Welp, Herbert to return for his senior season. That's a blow to our hopes of trading down. Now only two first round QB locks in Haskins and Lock? Maybe Grier?

Not good, not good at all. 

Haskins sounds like he may be going back as well. Nothing confirmed, I'm pretty sure yet, but he posted on Mike Weber's timeline when he declared asking him to come back for another year. I'm guessing that he's still evaluating at this point. He recevied a first round grade from the draft eval, and he'd certainly be the top quarterback (not so sure he wouldn't have been anyway). 

I think that Herbert going back is a big help to us depending on the final draft order. If Haskins goes back as well, we are screwed, but having only one top 10 type quarterback with at least two quarterback needy teams in the top 10 will drive value based on supply / demand. The problem is, we may be too high right now with the Giants, Jags and Washington picking 8/9/16. There's no need to trade all the way up to 2 / 3. The Jags can trade up to 5 or so to ensure they get their guy over the Giants. 

[John232]

36 minutes ago, Forge said:

Haskins sounds like he may be going back as well. Nothing confirmed, I'm pretty sure yet, but he posted on Mike Weber's timeline when he declared asking him to come back for another year. I'm guessing that he's still evaluating at this point. He recevied a first round grade from the draft eval, and he'd certainly be the top quarterback (not so sure he wouldn't have been anyway). 

I think that Herbert going back is a big help to us depending on the final draft order. If Haskins goes back as well, we are screwed, but having only one top 10 type quarterback with at least two quarterback needy teams in the top 10 will drive value based on supply / demand. The problem is, we may be too high right now with the Giants, Jags and Washington picking 8/9/16. There's no need to trade all the way up to 2 / 3. The Jags can trade up to 5 or so to ensure they get their guy over the Giants. 

That's what I was going o come in here to say. if Haskins comes out, top 5 value just sky rocketed. But if he leaves...then trading back will be really hard. 

 

As for Williams, I just don't dig comparing guys to GOAT's and expecting them to be that. Furthermore, we have a guy in Buckner who is damn near at that level, Sure, two guys would be great, but there's also a point of diminishing returns, because they would literally be putting two heads on both guys at all times, and doing it in an easier fashion. C+G &FB/T/TE+G. As it stands right now, we don't have an edge that can even beat a TE consistently. Which would be highly problematic for two elite DT's. I know this a splitting hairs argument, but it's just not a good investment. Adding one of the elite edge prospects makes it infinitely harder to scheme for us,  as opposed to two DT's. At this point, TE's can just literally chip a guy like Marsh or Thomas (when on edge) and kill their pass-rush. That's unacceptable. And when there  are elite talents in Burns, Polite, Allen and Bosa, who provide way more versatility to our defensive fronts, you can't pass that up. Allen has a Mack level ceiling, Burns could be Aldon Smith 2.0, Polite looks like a Dwight Freeney clone. Bosa looks like at the very least a  prime Brian Orakpo and possibly a Jared Allen level player. I would much rather have that combination.  The other aspect of this too, is if we grab Williams, he's going to be in a heavy rotation. Right now we have 5 good interior players, possibly 6: Taylor, Jones, Buckner, Thomas, Armstead, Blair. Armstead, Blair and Thomas just had their best years too. I don't want to scrap them just yet. 

 

 

[757-NINER]

So when we sign a edge in free agency(which we will), then what's the argument? You can't double two interior guys into today's game. It's just not plausible. Your run game will be non-existent and someone's getting home as you move a safety or nickelback closer to the box.  Blitz either the A and B gaps and the QB is getting killed all day. Much easier to chip or double team a guy along the edge than upfront because that means your taking another O-Lineman away from someone else and asking a TE to block a edge guy, 1-on-1. Especially with all the stunts and loops you could pull off. Two dominant guys in the interior creates all kinds problems for offenses. Say we go out and sign a Dee Ford or a Brandon Graham or a Z'Darius Smith in free agency. You add them to a interior front of DeFo and Williams and it completely transforms the front seven. 

Like I've said before, I won't be mad at all if it's a edge guy. But outside of Bosa, there is uncertainty there. I'm not sold on any of the edge guys being top flight NFL Pro Bowl types outside of Bosa really. Sure I really like some guys better than Bosa but he seems the least likely to bust due to his lineage. I just think his ceiling is substantial lower than most but I won't deny he will probably hit the ground running as a pro. But a guy like Allen I'm definitely not sold on a difference maker on the edge, at the next level. I definitely wouldn't compare him to Mack. And as much as I like Burns, do you draft him #2 overall? Same with Polite. If we were picking 6 or 7, sure go for the need. But having a chance to draft the top overall talent in the ENTIRE draft I think you have to entertain all possiblites. 

Now if Bosa falls to number 2, sure I think he's the guy they take without question. Like I said, he seems the least likely to fail given the family's ability to produce pass-rushers. But if Bosa goes #1 and we're sitting on the clock, and Williams is waiting to be picked, he should be the guy IMO. Now if they can somehow manage to trade down and acquire picks BY ALL MEANS, I'm on board. But I just think that's highley unlikely. Even if Haskins declares, he's just not good enough IMO to warrant a trade-up into the #2 or #3 overall. This just isn't the year to trade up for a QB. So me saying Williams should be the pick is strictly about us staying@2 and having to decide which talent warrants the pick. I'm saying for my money, it's Williams.