49erurtaza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Desperado82 said: I mean...I kinda can't blame him. I would laugh if Rosen and Darnold came back to school lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Just now, 49erurtaza said: I would laugh if Rosen and Darnold came back to school lol For me...I'd take it as a challenge. I mean, imagine how revered you be in that city and around the league if you were able to get the Browns back to a consistently winning team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Groink said: It's hilarious how everyone is now on the Allen hate train. Let's let the process unfold, see where he lands, and how he's developed. I'm seeing "4th rounder, career back-up" etc. being thrown around. His physical stature and ability make him a first rounder, there's no way around it. He's pretty much the prototypical modern NFL quarterback. Now, I'm not saying start preparing his bust in Canton, but he's going to be highly coveted. Coaches can work magic with someone like Allen. Look at what BOB did with Watson, or Dak's success in Dallas. It's all about what situation they're put into, how a coach molds the offense around them, etc. I"d want Darnold or Rosen before him for sure, but still. Let's see. It has nothing to do with hate. It has everything to do with the red flags that have plagued him, and the players who came before him. Many (myself included) have stated that his accuracy issues are something that can't be overstated. You know who else had those same accuracy concerns? Christian Hackenberg. I'm not saying he's going to have the same kind of career path that Hack did, but it's something that creates a significant red flag. I've already stated his decision making left a bit to be desired, and there's plenty of players who don't overcome those issues. Sure, physically he fits the profile of a franchise QB but in terms of development he's significantly further behind Rosen and Darnold in that regard. That's why Rosen and Darnold are considered top 5 pick, and Allen isn't. You can be a 4th round prospect, but be drafted in the 1st round. Team needs and positional value are going to trump where the prospect is valued at. I mean, Blaine Gabbert was a top 10 pick and he was a mediocre prospect. The Vikings selected Christian Ponder 12th overall and he's nothing more than a career backup. And comparing Josh Allen to DeShaun Watson and Dak Prescott is a pretty bad comp. Dak was an NFL-ready prospect as far as QB prospects go, and Watson had that IT factor. I don't think I've seen anything from Allen that suggests that he has that IT factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiBiz Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 27 minutes ago, Desperado82 said: For me...I'd take it as a challenge. I mean, imagine how revered you be in that city and around the league if you were able to get the Browns back to a consistently winning team? Key Word is Bolded 33 minutes ago, showtime said: According to that report, Rosen is considering going back to school. Why go back to school? Just do what Eli Manning did. I think going back to school is just a waste. If he really doesn't want to play for the Browns then just be up front with them and tell them you will not sign with them and you're willing to sit out all season. The funny thing is, there was reports about not wanting to play for the Browns in regards to Sam Darnold. Darnold refuted those reports. He should pull an Eli, and Darnold is the type of person who doesn't like to step on toes. It also makes me think Darnold doesn't care about winning. Hmmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Crazy draft theory, but if you’re the Browns do you consider taking QBs with both 1st round picks? Think about it... you get to get a full offseason/season with both QBs in your program. You have two high 2nd and 3rd round picks. You have the youngest roster in the NFL. You have the most money to spend of any team in the league. While you may not get equivalent value, you can still opt to trade one of the QBs the following year for (likely) a big haul and more certainty that you land “the guy” Unlikely, but would be fun to see happen if we saw a guy like Mayfield and Allen end up with the Browns. Talk about reinventing the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, minutemancl said: Josh Rosen is gonna pull an Eli/Elway to go to the Giants and its gonna be great Dorsey doesn’t like him so that’s fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Tiger Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Lol neither Darnold/Rosen want to play for the Browns. Allen or Mayfield will be a Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groink Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, CWood21 said: It has nothing to do with hate. It has everything to do with the red flags that have plagued him, and the players who came before him. Many (myself included) have stated that his accuracy issues are something that can't be overstated. You know who else had those same accuracy concerns? Christian Hackenberg. I'm not saying he's going to have the same kind of career path that Hack did, but it's something that creates a significant red flag. I've already stated his decision making left a bit to be desired, and there's plenty of players who don't overcome those issues. Sure, physically he fits the profile of a franchise QB but in terms of development he's significantly further behind Rosen and Darnold in that regard. That's why Rosen and Darnold are considered top 5 pick, and Allen isn't. You can be a 4th round prospect, but be drafted in the 1st round. Team needs and positional value are going to trump where the prospect is valued at. I mean, Blaine Gabbert was a top 10 pick and he was a mediocre prospect. The Vikings selected Christian Ponder 12th overall and he's nothing more than a career backup. And comparing Josh Allen to DeShaun Watson and Dak Prescott is a pretty bad comp. Dak was an NFL-ready prospect as far as QB prospects go, and Watson had that IT factor. I don't think I've seen anything from Allen that suggests that he has that IT factor. I never compared Allen to Watson or Dak as football players. I said it's all about where Allen ends up. Watson and Dak would not be doing what they are doing if they were in different situations, but things aligned. BOB molded that offense around Watson's abilities. He's talked about as a qb guru for a reason. He even made Hack look good lol. Dak has a great offensive line and a great running back protecting him, and we've seen the dip when he doesn't have those. Same for Allen. He needs to land in a place that will let him learn. Coming back to school was a mistake for him. This was a wasted year. And never did I say Allen was in any way shape or form NFL-ready. Sit him behind a vet for a few years and see what happens. That's worthy of a 1st in many teams eyes, regardless of the outcome. All I'm saying is it's trendy to hate on Allen. Yes, I see the issues. The accuracy is concerning but he had nothing around him at Wyoming, literally running for his life every play with no skill position players stepping up. I'd rather see the pre-draft process play out. See where he lands. See him in an NFL offense. I like Darnold, Rosen, hell, even Mayfield better but I'm not going to write this kid off yet like many are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Groink said: I never compared Allen to Watson or Dak as football players. I said it's all about where Allen ends up. Watson and Dak would not be doing what they are doing if they were in different situations, but things aligned. BOB molded that offense around Watson's abilities. He's talked about as a qb guru for a reason. He even made Hack look good lol. Dak has a great offensive line and a great running back protecting him, and we've seen the dip when he doesn't have those. Same for Allen. He needs to land in a place that will let him learn. Coming back to school was a mistake for him. This was a wasted year. And never did I say Allen was in any way shape or form NFL-ready. Sit him behind a vet for a few years and see what happens. That's worthy of a 1st in many teams eyes, regardless of the outcome. All I'm saying is it's trendy to hate on Allen. Yes, I see the issues. The accuracy is concerning but he had nothing around him at Wyoming, literally running for his life every play with no skill position players stepping up. I'd rather see the pre-draft process play out. See where he lands. See him in an NFL offense. I like Darnold, Rosen, hell, even Mayfield better but I'm not going to write this kid off yet like many are doing. So...you're telling me you'd invest a top 10 pick into a player you KNOW will not be ready to play Year 1? We're not arguing whether or not he will go early, we're discussing where he should go. The NFL has always seen QBs get overvalued and go considerably higher than they should. Does anyone truly think EJ Manuel was a 1st round prospect? Hell, I think I had a 5th round grade on him. Nobody refers to BOB as a QB guru that I'm aware of. There is literally nothing that Watson did with Houston that he didn't do at Clemson. BOB didn't really change Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 41 minutes ago, jetskid007 said: Crazy draft theory, but if you’re the Browns do you consider taking QBs with both 1st round picks? Think about it... That would be LOL-worthy, but you don't get armed with two top-4 picks and use them both on QBs. They'll go QB at 1, and if Saquon Barkley is available with their 2nd pick they'll take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 3 hours ago, CWood21 said: That would be LOL-worthy, but you don't get armed with two top-4 picks and use them both on QBs. They'll go QB at 1, and if Saquon Barkley is available with their 2nd pick they'll take him. They will trade down with Houston's pick. I can almost guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Elusive_Tiger said: Lol neither Darnold/Rosen want to play for the Browns. Allen or Mayfield will be a Brown. Eh, Darnold refuted that report, but who knows? I can understand why a QB would be hesitant to play for the Browns since they've been such an unstable franchise. However, do they not realize how big of a legend they would be if they led the Browns back to prominence? They'd be as big as LeBron James. And if they truly believe in themselves as quarterbacks, then they should be up for the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 1 hour ago, pnies20 said: They will trade down with Houston's pick. I can almost guarantee it. That partly depends on who is available at that pick, and what teams are willing to give up. I know if I was Dorsey, I would demand a tremendous haul. Otherwise I'd keep the pick and go with Barkley or maybe someone like Fitzpatrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, DawgX said: That partly depends on who is available at that pick, and what teams are willing to give up. I know if I was Dorsey, I would demand a tremendous haul. Otherwise I'd keep the pick and go with Barkley or maybe someone like Fitzpatrick. There has to be a market in order to demand that haul. If they're not picking in the top 3, what player is generating that market? You'd have to assume that QBs are going Cleveland at 1 and the Giants at 2. Bradley Chubb likely goes 3 to Indianapolis. So which player generates that level of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: There has to be a market in order to demand that haul. If they're not picking in the top 3, what player is generating that market? You'd have to assume that QBs are going Cleveland at 1 and the Giants at 2. Bradley Chubb likely goes 3 to Indianapolis. So which player generates that level of interest? I'm aware of that. But it's not like the Browns have to trade back. It's one thing to trade back without getting a significant amount in return if there's no prospect Dorsey loves at that spot, but I wouldn't trade back just for the sake of trading back. Barkley could potentially spark some trade interest. Maybe even Mayfield could if there's a QB-needy team who's feeling desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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