BleedTheClock Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Calvert28 said: But you still contradicted yourself. He either is or he isn't. You can't just say, he's changed but he's still a criminal. Hopefully this response is the last one I have to make for you to understand my response. It's not a contradiction. There is no chance in hell ANY of us can tell what kind of person Michael Vick is now. We don't know him. We don't know if he's genuinely different, genuinely remorseful for his actions. I am guessing that he is still not a great person based on the horrific crimes that he committed. That's one of the most horrible things a human being can do in my opinion. I don't think it's likely that you can murder puppies one day and all of a sudden be a great person. It's certainly possible, but my money is on this: He's remorseful that he got caught and he and his agent knew how to take the heat off of him as much as possible. Because there is no way to prove this is how he felt, I can't 100% say one way or another. But I think when you do certain heinous things, you are stuck with that criminal thing forever. Sucks, but your past should follow you to some degree....even if you are completely remorseful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I'd comment in detail but damn this went off topic. Cam>Vick. As a player and as a person, Vick never got to a superbowl so I'll give Cam the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Despite Vick torturing dogs...Cam Newton STILL has the more punchable face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Arm strength isn't how far you can throw it. It's about the velocity in which it comes out (at least for me.) Most of the guys you listed as having "average" arms have well above average zip on their throws. Stabler had a very good arm. Matt Ryan is above average. Romo had a great arm. Rodgers has a great arm lol. Rich Gannon had an above average arm. Drew Brees has an above average arm. Never really paid attention to Steve Young. Kurt Warner had an average arm, I'll give you that one. Never watched Dan Fouts either. Maximum distance and maximum velocity are strongly correlated. If you have the live arm to zip it in there, you should have the live arm to get the distance. If you were to list off a lot of the strongest arms of QBs to come into the league, not too many really good ones would be on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Question, why do people think Cam is a better passer than Vick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, Malik said: Question, why do people think Cam is a better passer than Vick? never passed for less than 3k preseason. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Can I get young Vick with his later-years maturity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 19 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: never passed for less than 3k preseason. . I would hope not considering he roughly averages 490 passes a season. Vick's career high was 423. Even with Cam's monsterous 2015, he is still only marginally higher in career TD% with the exact same INT%. Outside of sacks, their rate numbers are pretty similar across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crickett Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Malik said: I would hope not considering he roughly averages 490 passes a season. Vick's career high was 423. Even with Cam's monsterous 2015, he is still only marginally higher in career TD% with the exact same INT%. You say this like it's an argument in favor of Vick and not an argument against him. For years, coaches tried to make Vick someone who could succeed from the pocket and none of them could in Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Crickett said: You say this like it's an argument in favor of Vick and not an argument against him. For years, coaches tried to make Vick someone who could succeed from the pocket and none of them could in Atlanta. That doesn't dispute how they're comparable passers in the slightest. For all the trust that people have in Cam's ability over Vick he hasn't been much more than marginally better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Michael Vick in 115 starts (143 games total): 169 total touchdowns Cam Newton in 108 starts (109 games total): 212 total touchdowns Even accounting for the changes around the league since Vick's prime, that's a big difference. Vick was a flashier play-maker, but Newton was/is the better play-maker. Very few QBs match Newton's scoring productivity: he's accounted for more TDs than anyone since 2011 other than Rodgers, Brees, and Brady. Vick wasn't even close to that level; the only time he was in the top 10 for passing TDs (#10 with 20), he scored only 2 rushing TDs. I'd much rather depend on Newton to carry an offense than I would Vick, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 12 hours ago, iknowcool said: Michael Vick in 115 starts (143 games total): 169 total touchdowns Cam Newton in 108 starts (109 games total): 212 total touchdowns Even accounting for the changes around the league since Vick's prime, that's a big difference. Vick was a flashier play-maker, but Newton was/is the better play-maker. Very few QBs match Newton's scoring productivity: he's accounted for more TDs than anyone since 2011 other than Rodgers, Brees, and Brady. Vick wasn't even close to that level; the only time he was in the top 10 for passing TDs (#10 with 20), he scored only 2 rushing TDs. I'd much rather depend on Newton to carry an offense than I would Vick, Definitely buy this argument of Newton over Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlNFL19 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I don't want my starting QB to be involved with dog fighting, and Newton's had more team success, so Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 2:16 AM, iknowcool said: I'd much rather depend on Newton to carry an offense than I would Vick, Soooo what your saying is you hope you have a fantastic defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 6:30 PM, Kiwibrown said: He had talent id say as a thrower, accuracy and power. He lacked consistency perhaps. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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