Beast Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Brit Pack said: So you don't believe in player development then? You don't feel that the QB position is one of the toughest to play not just in American Football but in all of sports. That within a nine game sample size the future of a player and his potential has been determined? Or that players do suck when they first play like Jared Goff or Steve Young and it takes a while for a player to figure it all out. That it takes time to learn the position and only game time reps can do that for you. It is funny we are much more forgiving of a wide receiver when it comes to development then we are of a QB. Look how many seasons it has taken Adams to flourish, or even guys like Jordy or Donald Driver. They didn't all hit the ground running. Funny thing is I don't want to defend Hundley cos I don't even like him but I get more frustrated at the fact that through his limited playing time people have already determined his potential. Please stop misleading my comments. Of course I believe in players development, but I also believe in common sense, knowing ones limits and that somethings are coachable, somethings aren't. You cite guys like Steve Young is completely pointless because they didn't have the current CBA in place which is seriously limiting time with coaches and players development at all positions, which is part of knowing limits. For Jared Goff, everyone has struggled in Jeff Fishers out if date offense. I've already explained Hundley's problem, but as far as the player development goes 1) Without allowing him to get hit, you can't develop mental toughness, of bouncing back from a hit. Do you think an NFL will let him get hit in practice? What about practice that in the off-season? It just doesn't happen no more... heck there was a recent article on K Ryan Long well, taking about how he even kickers make it on mental toughness. Either you got it or you don't. 2) Currently Hundley has shown about 0% ability to mulitask and focus on both down the field and pass rush... even if he improves that to 15%, 20%, 25%, he's still going to be lacking and behind in that area. And the fact that he so incredibly behind in that area shows that he struggles to learn that aspect. Just like I wasn't that interested in OT Spriggs , despite his 1st round physical potential, because he was a 4 year starter in college buy was as developed as little as a one year starter. Some people just struggle to learn and develop in certain aspects. 3) Again it's really the combination of both, which neither are that coachable nor development unless it's live action. This limits Hundley's potential... even Packers.com wrote you can't coach mental toughness, in regards to the last QB showing good toughness with some great passes as a blitzer is about to clearly nail him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoremore Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 His stock was high before last season's debacle. Now he's worthless. Maybe we could get a late round conditional draft choice but that is about it. The guy did improve somewhat as the season progressed but he is far from a starting QB in the league. QB's are no good if they can't throw the ball downfield. It's really strange how he can light it up in the preseason but completely suck during real games. The guy couldn't pass the ball downfield last year to save his life. He'll probably remain on the roster as QB2 until Kizer surpasses him. Best guess but if he gets released I won't be shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 One way to visualize player's "potential to production" development is to visualize an S-curve. The beginning of a player's development is represented by the initial flat part of the S-curve. That is the player's floor. The middle part of the S-curve (the steeply rising part) is where the majority of the learning/development happens. The final, flat part of the S-curve is the ceiling of the player's potential. Early development is slow, then it takes off, then it levels off. Hundley has had three training camps and he also had the opportunity to start a good number of games last year. Because of that I would put him near the part of the S-curve where it is beginning to level off. In other words he pretty much is what he is. Kizer should be on the fast rising part of the S-curve. Where it will level off is anybody's guess right now, but I'm sure we can all agree that McCarthy's guess is the only one that counts! Boyle is just at the beginning of the S-curve. IMHO Hundley is only on the team to prove to the coaches that he can be the veteran backup that wasn't signed in FA. In other words can he push that second flat area on the S-curve high enough to earn a roster spot? If not, then he will be gone and my best guess is the Packers will use the Brohm/Flynn strategy with Kizer and Boyle (plan B). Does anyone remember if they kept both Brohm and Flynn on the 53? Or did one of them start on the PS. Past is prologue to the future, but they were burned last year with Hill, so they might be cautious and keep both Kizer and Boyle on the 53 this year. The two players to watch carefully are Hundley and Boyle. I think Plan A was to use Hundley as the vet backup and have Kizer as the young development player (would mean keeping 3 QBs on the 53). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Scoremore said: His stock was high before last season's debacle. Now he's worthless. Maybe we could get a late round conditional draft choice but that is about it. The guy did improve somewhat as the season progressed but he is far from a starting QB in the league. QB's are no good if they can't throw the ball downfield. It's really strange how he can light it up in the preseason but completely suck during real games. The guy couldn't pass the ball downfield last year to save his life. He'll probably remain on the roster as QB2 until Kizer surpasses him. Best guess but if he gets released I won't be shocked. Yeah, I was regretting not getting the rumored 4th round pick for him last year (which I always assumed was from the Giants, though I have zero proof), but the Packers could of grabbed TE George Kittle, who I really wanted and put up 500+ yards as a rookie TE. I don't think it's strange... in the preseason he's going against worse talent, worse coverage guys... AND Hundley can really though when he has no contract to worry about. In the preseason most teams don't throw out their huge or best pressure packages or best pass rushers for long. Hundley just can't focus down field and on the pass rush at the same time... and after being hit, he focuses on the pass rush and his good throwing goes bye bye.... for x number of plays. In the season, they just kept getting pressure on him (especially with all the OT injuries they had). 2 hours ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: Does anyone remember if they kept both Brohm and Flynn on the 53? Or did one of them start on the PS. Past is prologue to the future, but they were burned last year with Hill, so they might be cautious and keep both Kizer and Boyle on the 53 this year. The two players to watch carefully are Hundley and Boyle. I think Plan A was to use Hundley as the vet backup and have Kizer as the young development player (would mean keeping 3 QBs on the 53). You completely lost me on the S-curve but that's alright. I'm pretty sure they kept Brohm on the 53 as a rookie (like all teams try to do with all their high round rookies) and PS the second year... before being claimed off the PS. ... also Brohm is Co-offensive coordinator & quarterbacks coach at Purdue (just saying). I could turn out to be completely wrong about QB Hill, but I thought his arm was average... he was killing 3rd/4th string defenses, but that's because they couldn't freaking catch him... I don't think Hill was like Micheal Vick or Russel Wilson in that they could/can do that against 1st stringers, and would need to rely on his arm more, which might not be enough (just my thought, again I could be wrong). Though I think Sean Payton's system is best for Hill for most of the same reason everyone was saying it would be for QB Lamar Jackson in that it spreads teams out and gets a QB a lot of simple/quick reads (though Brees can do it all when the situation calls for it, wasn't a knock on Brees). I like Boyle's arm a lot better than Hill's... then again, I like Boyle's arm a lot more than Hundley and Kizer too... but I don't think Boyle is ready to be #2 QB yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I like Hundley's chances to have a long career, in the CFL. Afterall, Johnny Manziel is starting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Value went up again last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 What’s the minimum you guys would accept for him? I think a 5 wouldn’t be the worst loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecatcher Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 1 minute ago, pollino14 said: What’s the minimum you guys would accept for him? I think a 5 wouldn’t be the worst loss. Khalil Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Brit Pack said: Value went up again last night... I don't know. He has some pretty bad tape from last season out there. That said, he's looked considerably better so far this preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 At this point, I'd deal Hundley for pretty much anything you can get. The difference between him and Kizer come regular season time is de minimis in my opinion and I'd rather carry 2 QBs with Boyle on the PS versus 3 guys on the active roster. Ride or die with Kizer as the backup and get a whatever pick you can for Hundley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Do we think that Hundley will remain in the league after this season? I think he has shown as much as most career back-ups. I don't think I would trade him for less than a 4th or 5th because he factors into the comp pick equation. IMO that is more valuable than the #53 guy on the roster, who probably is a healthy scratch anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I'm not a Hundley backer - but - I see his value relative to Kizer being he's a 4 year guy in the same system whereas this is Kizer's first. That said - I thought the same concept would reap benefits last year - when he was a 3 year guy in the same system - and that didnt exactly pan out. So - what to make of that (?) I dont know other than I like Kizer more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Like I said before I don't like him, just a non-rational bias. But I think he has improved massively. He is much more aware of the rush and making reads. While I actually prefer Kizer I would feel more comfortable Hundley backing up AR then anyone else. Hence keeping three QBs might be a pill we have to swallow which I never thought would be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I'm personally of the opinion that against vanilla defenses that are not game planning against him he will look OK. Put him against a legit NFL defense he is atrocious. I just think he is too quick to move outside the pocket or freestyle. I want my QB to run the offense give me Kizer and get rid of Hundley for a 7th or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 3 hours ago, pollino14 said: What’s the minimum you guys would accept for him? I think a 5 wouldn’t be the worst loss. Regular season tape holds far, far more weight than preseason tape. If someone offered a 7th, you take it and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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