Who are the most overpaid players in the league?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:01 PM, megatechpc said:

What "hype" are you talking about in the first place?  Matt Ryan is probably the least talked about franchise QB in the media on a yearly basis.  Even when he clearly was the MVP during 2016, the media was doing everything they could to hype Derek Carr whose stats weren't close to Ryan's.  Its amazing how much disrespect you clearly have for a guy who ranks 16th EVER in passing yards (6th active), 18th in TD passes (7th active), 12th in QB rating (8th active), 8th in completion % (4th active), and 10th in INT % (7th active).  If you really think Matt Ryan is only the 15th best QB in the NFL this year I just don't know what to tell you because you're clearly ignorant or a hater. 

Here's my current ranking of Top-10 QB's in the NFL this year:

#1 - Tom Brady

#2 - Aaron Rodgers

#3 - Drew Brees

#4 - Ben Roethlisberger

#5 - Russell Wilson

#6 - Matt Ryan

#7 - Andrew Luck

#8 - Carson Wentz

#9 - Matthew Stafford

#10 - Philip Rivers

Andrew Luck must have some really good blackmail on people to consistently be ranked this high despite not throwing a pass in the NFL for over 2 full seasons, and even before that not being this good.

[FalconFan13]

6 hours ago, Danger said:

Atlanta's defense was 9th best in yards given up and 8th best in points per game allowed last season.

1 season does not make a career my friend    Im actually quite happy about last season honestly we are finally building it the right way under quinn and thats the same with the end of 2016 as well the defense was coming on super strong then.     Last year was actually quite a good season from Ryan it really wasn't that much worse than his 2016 season where he won mvp.   Thats why PFF had him as the 2nd best QB overall in their rankings.   If you was a falcon fan and got to watch the games every week you would be saying this as well because his receivers led the league in drops and he had 6 or 7 int's literally hit his receivers in their hands only to bobble it or bounce off them and turn into int's.  Heck even crazier is one of them bounced off someones hands landed on a defenders butt that was laying on the ground only to have another defender pick it up off the dudes butt for a int    Plus atleast 3 or 4 dropped TD passes that hit ppl in hands wide open.    It was some of the worst luck i've seen for a QB in a good while theirs not much you can really do when that happens and this goes for all QB's not just ryan sometimes you get those bad luck seasons while playing really well.

2008 - 24th 
2009- 21st
2010- 16th -  our best year was still only good enough for middle of the pack
2011- 21st
2012- 24th
2013- 27th
2014-  32nd  - Dead last
2015-  16th - (1st year of Quinn)
2016-  25th - (bad start to the season but by the end of it we was playing like a top 10 D.  In 2017 we started to be the top 10 we showed late in the season.
2017 - 9th 

As said im quite happy about the last 3 seasons under quinn were gonna be a damn good D soon enough.  That 25th doesn't show it all in 2016 we had a REALLY BAD START and came on crazy strong the 2nd half of the season when Quinn took over play calling duties from richard smith.

[EaglesPeteC]

Kirk Coupons

[megatechpc]

On 8/20/2018 at 11:18 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Andrew Luck must have some really good blackmail on people to consistently be ranked this high despite not throwing a pass in the NFL for over 2 full seasons, and even before that not being this good.

My ranking is based on my personal belief that Luck is healthy now and will return to his former form, before the injuries side-tracked his career.  Between 2012 and 2014 he was absolutely a top-10 QB and in 2014 he was a strong contender for MVP (4700+ yards, 40 TD's, 96.5 QBR).  Obviously, if the time off or the injuries fundamentally change what he is on the field then that ranking will go down, but I am expecting him to bounce back this year.  He will probably be pretty rough for the first quarter of the season at least, but by the end of the year I think he will be Andrew Luck again, and you are kidding yourself if you really don't think he was ever a top-10 QB.

[BayRaider]

On 8/17/2018 at 9:17 PM, sammymvpknight said:

Seriously. He should really write a book about being mediocre at your job while defrauding multiple businesses for millions. I’d buy it!

I'd literally buy it. Can't hate Bradfords hustle. 

[MrOaktown_56]

On 8/19/2018 at 7:15 PM, megatechpc said:

I'd say that its irrelevant because it has equated to precisely squat in terms of success for the Raiders.  I'd also say that he's never thrown for 4k yards in a season despite averaging nearly 600 passes per year (I know, I know, he's been very close to 4k a couple of times but still).  YPA is one of the very best stats to look at when evaluating QB's and a 6.5 avg is quite simply abysmal.  Carr also has a career rating of 87.5 which is solidly mediocre to be brutally honest.

Now, all that said, I do not agree at all that he is overpaid, mostly for the same reason that I don't consider any of the recent QB's who have signed mega contracts to be "overpaid".  Its just down to the economics of the current NFL where franchise QB's are the absolute highest priority of every single team and if you have one (or can get one) you are going to pay whatever it takes.  Derek Carr may be vastly overrated IMO, but he is clearly a solid franchise QB and the Raiders would've been crazy not to retain him, whatever the cost.

2

This is almost worse than your Mack argument. Almost...

Are you seriously discrediting Carr for not having success on the Raiders his last 4 years? You realize that he's taken the Raiders from being the Browns 2.0 to at the very least a respectable team in a tough division right? His career rating is low because his rookie year wasn't good, but if you look at the players around him as a rookie, it was beyond abysmal.

His starting receivers were James Jones, Andre Holmes, and Rod Streater. None of those guys are career starters. Mychal Rivera, his starting tight end is out of the league. His rookie season is negatively skewed as far as passer rating and YPA and for good reason.

You're also discounting the fact that his receivers have been 2ND IN THE LEAGUE IN DROPS since 2014. That takes a huge chunk out of your YPA.

You know what's even worse than you saying that his YPA is bad and ignoring the facts?

His passer rating is still HIGHER than Andrew Luck, who you rank in the top 10. Do you know why Andrew luck had TEAM success? He played in a garbage division when he won games. The colts had a top 3 ease of strength of schedule in the majority of years they were winning. Matthew Stafford's career passer rating is a monumental .8 points higher. I guess that threshold of 88 is what makes a passer rating good right?

To be brutally honest, you can't have double standards in your argument, then call Carr "overrated". If your argument is based off of passer rating, he's right on par with Luck and Stafford. If your argument is based on team success, which is still awful, the Lions and Raiders have made the playoffs once since Carr came into the league so not a huge difference there. You also ignore the touchdown to interception narrative in favor of YPA because it doesn't support your assertion that Carr is overrated. You also ignore drops, which is crucial to YPA, but who's taking into account context? Your casual fan narratives are extremely shallow. Just like when you tried to critique Mack off the amazingly limited quantity of games of his that you've watched.

[megatechpc]

Sorry man, I know its crazy that other people may not agree with you that the players on your team are the greatest to ever play the game, but I have no dog in this fight and I'm just calling them like I see them.  I certainly don't only look at passer rating when I evaluate a QB, although it is a factor.  I look at YPA, total yards, TD's, and INT's.  I also look at the quality of the team surrounding them and intangibles like arm strength and mobility.  I dunno, you're right when you say Luck's career stats don't blow Carr's out of the water, but then there was his 2014 season in which he threw for 4700 yards, 7.7 YPA, 40 TD's, and had a passer rating of 96.5 which put him squarely into the MVP conversation (similar to Carr's 2016 season).  It is absolutely a shame that Carr got hurt that year because we would've learned a lot more about him as a QB had he finished the season and gotten a chance to start in the playoffs.  As-is, I just don't believe in him as much as others do and last year's atrocious performance doesn't help matters.  Luck took a team that finished 2-14 in 2011 and nearly single-handedly led them to 3 straight 11-5 finishes, culminating in an AFCCG.  Carr led his team from a 4-12 record in 2013 to 3-13 in his first year.  Then 7-9 the next year.  In 2016 he broke through and got them to 12-4 (but as I said, missed the playoffs with an injury) and then last year it was right back down to 6-10.  There is just more to passing the eye-test at QB than simply passer rating.

[JAF-N72EX]

dammit

[JAF-N72EX]

35 minutes ago, megatechpc said:

I dunno, you're right when you say Luck's career stats don't blow Carr's out of the water, but then there was his 2014 season in which he threw for 4700 yards, 7.7 YPA, 40 TD's, and had a passer rating of 96.5 which put him squarely into the MVP conversation (similar to Carr's 2016 season).

You can't compare Luck's division opponents in 2014 vs Carr's division opponents in 2016. Let's stop right there.

[JAF-N72EX]

And I hope I don't need to mention that Carr did with it WR's with butter fingers at that.

[megatechpc]

Ok you win man, Derek Carr is the greatest QB of all time.  Happy?

[MrOaktown_56]

19 minutes ago, megatechpc said:

Ok you win man, Derek Carr is the greatest QB of all time.  Happy?

Your being so obtuse right now. You called him overrated and then pulled some BS arguments cherry picking metrics while clearly ignoring others. I laid it out very clearly. 
If you're just calling it how it is, why are you ignoring statistics in his favor? And all the relevant context I brought up?

Just because people are backing Carr here, because of all the people dumping on him because of recency bias, we think he's the GOAT qb?

Cmon man, awful strawman. Try harder.

Last year was "atrocious"? You didn't watch him. He had a back injury and a preschool OC who couldn't even get a qb job after being fired. He played an extremely tough schedule and his receivers were once again top 3 in the league in drops. And his "abysmal" season had a 86.5 quarterback rating, which is about two points lower than Luck's career passer rating. If that's atrocious, has Luck's whole career been atrocious?

You aren't considering any context, which is easy to understand because you don't watch the team. Which is why you bring up YPA, but ignore his absolutely abysmal drop numbers. Which is why you bring up team success, but ignore the situation and strength of schedule. Which is why you bring up 4000 yard passing/passing yards, but you ignore touchdown to interception ratio.

And lets be real here, you don't consider the quality of the team around him and the competition.

Raiders strength of schedule over the last 4 years:

2014: #1 (!!!!!)

2015: 8th

2016: 15th

2017:4th

Colts strength of schedule over Luck's career when he's played:

2012:T-14th

2013:30th

2014:32nd

2015: 31st

2016:22nd

These aren't even remotely comparable. Lucks schedule has only ranked above the bottom 10 in the NFL once. He literally played a bottom 3 schedule in 60% of his years starting.

Compare to Carr, where he's only played one year outside the top 10 in strength of schedule. What's more, Lucks hardest schedule is 1 spot higher than Carr's easiest. I don't think you understand what kind of bearing that has on individual statistics, let alone wins.

Who in this forum is calling Carr some kind of phenom? The forum is actually very down on him as a whole because of recency bias. In what world is he overrated? 

 

[SmittyBacall]

5 hours ago, megatechpc said:

Ok you win man, Derek Carr is the greatest QB of all time.  Happy?

This is the equivalent of backpedaling with your tail between your legs.

[turtle28]

On 8/17/2018 at 8:15 PM, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Because then the whole thread would just be fans of that player's team defending him and telling the OP he is wrong.

 

Guys getting way too much for what they will bring to the table in 2018 IMO...

• Jimmy G. Obviously has great potential not to be. 
• Joe Flacco
• Olivier Vernon
• Marcell Dareus
• JPP
• Jamie Collins
• Robert Quinn
• Trumaine Johnson

At first glance guys like Cooks, Watkins, Jeffery and Adams all seem kind of overpaid, but that's just the reality of WR contracts nowadays.

 

Great list! Joe Flacew is sooo overpaid! He plays like an average QB and always has except for a handful of games in a decade and gets paid like a franchise QB.

[megatechpc]

7 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

This is the equivalent of backpedaling with your tail between your legs.

Cant wait to see how Carr and the Raiders do this season, then we'll see who's backpedaling.