Who won the Khalil Mack trade?

[Kip Smithers]

If we account for the likely increase in salary cap over the coming years, how much of the cap would Mack and Carr accounted for?

 

[FrantikRam]

The Rams. If Mack is being paid that, then we're getting Donald for a steal.

Seriously though, it's the Raiders IMO. Mack is a great player, but not even close to worth that contract. He's not even definitively better than Von Miller, and not close to Donald IMO.

Bears gave up too much for my liking when you factor in that contract.

[FinSting]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

I would think the Bears won due to Mack being a generational type player. 

I see him as simply a very good LB, not a generational player. He was in Oakland four seasons and every year their team defense has been in the NFL's bottom half. Paying him a jillion dollars would make things worse as now you can't afford any improvements.

Look at his split stats, many of his sacks have been against Denver...like the 5 sacks in one game he had when Osweiler was fill-in QB during Manning's injury time of 2015. I see Mack as one of those big-name guys who is good at putting up nice stats but when you dig deeper...you'd wanna take two 1st-rd picks for him, as opposed to making him the highest-paid defensive guy ever. 

[Soko]

15 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

If we account for the likely increase in salary cap over the coming years, how much of the cap would Mack and Carr accounted for?

 

Carr’s AAV - $25M/yr.

Mack’s AAV - $23.5M/yr.

The cap has increased about $10M-$11M the past couple years, so we’ll use those. 

2019 cap range - ~$188M, give or take. This number could be higher or lower, obviously.

Roughly 26% of their AAV would be invested on Mack/Carr come 2019, if we use these figures. Though it’s worth mentioning, Carr’s cap hits for the remainder of his years are slightly lower than his AAV ($22.5M, $21.5M, $22.1M, $19.8M). 

Mack’s are $22.3M, $24M, $24M, $24.5M, $22.9M, and $23.3M.

Mack has no dead money in the final two years of his deal (2023 and 2024) and Carr’s dead money declines from $7.5M to $5M to $2.5M to $0 starting in 2019-2022.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Yin-Yang

[game3525]

1 hour ago, Shanedorf said:

Good call on the winners....
And the biggest "losers" were Aaron Donald's agents who spent many months crafting the Biggest Deal Ever, only to be supplanted a few days later

True, Rams could be added to the winners list as well. 

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Carr’s AAV - $25M/yr.

Mack’s AAV - $23.5M/yr.

The cap has increased about $10M-$11M the past couple years, so we’ll use those. 

2019 cap range - ~$188M, give or take. This number could be higher or lower, obviously.

Roughly 26% of their AAV would be invested on Mack/Carr come 2019, if we use these figures. Though it’s worth mentioning, Carr’s cap hits for the remainder of his years are slightly lower than his AAV ($22.5M, $21.5M, $22.1M, $19.8M). 

Mack’s are $22.3M, $24M, $24M, $24.5M, $22.9M, and $23.3M.

Mack has no dead money in the final two years of his deal (2023 and 2024) and Carr’s dead money declines from $7.5M to $5M to $2.5M to $0 starting in 2019-2022.

26%. Not all that bad. 

Just don’t understand, like what did Oakland think when they drafted Carr and Mack?

[BayRaider]

4 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

26%. Not all that bad. 

Just don’t understand, like what did Oakland think when they drafted Carr and Mack?

Well you're not gonna not draft a great player. 

[Nabbs4u]

5 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

26%. Not all that bad. 

Just don’t understand, like what did Oakland think when they drafted Carr and Mack?

That hopefully one of the two if not both panned out and they didn't have to relocate the Franchise?

Once again this had nothing to do with "wanting" to keep Mack but the inability to do so Financially "because" of the relocation. They simply didn't have the resources right now given the move.

If it comes down to who you choose between the two, you always go with the FQB! 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Nabbs4u

[Kip Smithers]

7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Well you're not gonna not draft a great player. 

Exactly. Be prepared to pay the money to keep him. I’d understand if you were in an either or situation. 

 

9 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

That hopefully one of the two if not both panned out and they didn't have to relocate the Franchise?

Once again this had nothing to do with "wanting" to keep Mack but the inability to do so Financially "because" of the relocation. They simply didn't have the resources right now given the move.

If it comes down to who you choose between the two, you always go with the FQB! 

A lot of people are saying that and we don’t know if that’s definitive or not. Some say that is the case and others say that is not case.

[MrOaktown_56]

2 hours ago, FinSting said:

I see him as simply a very good LB, not a generational player. He was in Oakland four seasons and every year their team defense has been in the NFL's bottom half. Paying him a jillion dollars would make things worse as now you can't afford any improvements.

Look at his split stats, many of his sacks have been against Denver...like the 5 sacks in one game he had when Osweiler was fill-in QB during Manning's injury time of 2015. I see Mack as one of those big-name guys who is good at putting up nice stats but when you dig deeper...you'd wanna take two 1st-rd picks for him, as opposed to making him the highest-paid defensive guy ever. 

Its not his fault our defense was bad. It was our idiotic defensive coordinator and head coach who thought that drafting a linebacker early was a good idea. Reggie has underwhelmed of late as well.

[Soko]

44 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

26%. Not all that bad. 

Just don’t understand, like what did Oakland think when they drafted Carr and Mack?

Here’s the rest of the league’s top 2 players % wise (note, this is for the 2018 cap and goes by %, not AAV, so it’s not apples-to-apples)

Browns: 13% (Taylor and Landry)

Colts: 19% (Luck and Hilton)

49ers: 21% (Jimmy and Staley)

Texans: 16% (Watt and Hopkins)

Titans: 13% (Ryan and Casey)

Jets: 10% (Tru and McCown)

Bengals: 17% (Dalton and Atkins)

Raiders: 19% (Carr and Osemele)

Dolphins: 12% (Quinn and Branch)

Redskins: 20% (Smith and Norman)

Ravens: 19% (Flacco and Yanda)

Cowboys: 19% (Tyron and D-Law*)

Falcons: 17% (Ryan and Tru)

Cardinals: 18% (Fitz and Chandler)

Bills: 10% (Hughes and Clay)

Bears: 13% (Mack* and Robinson)

Chiefs: 19% (Houston and Fisher)

Jags: 16% (Campbell and Jackson)

Lions: 24% (Stafford and Ansah*)

Patriots: 19% (Brady and Gilmore)

Seahawks: 21% (Wilson and Wagner)

Buccaneers: 17% (Evans and McCoy)

Steelers: 21% (Ben and Bell*)

Vikings: 20% (Kirk and Rhodes)

Chargers: 21% (Rivers and Okung)

Eagles: 18% (Cox and Foles)

Rams: 14% (Joyner* and Suh)

Broncos: 14% (Case and Demaryius)

Panthers: 21% (Newton and Short)

Packers: 18% (Cobb and Rodgers)

Giants: 22% (Eli and Vernon)

Saints: 22% (Brees and Jordan)

Note: These numbers include guys with a (*) that are playing on a 5th year (like Mack) or a franchise tender - meaning those numbers are higher than you’d expect. Also contracts like Rodgers, OBJ, Mack, Donald, etc. are not factored in yet since their new money hasn’t kicked in for this year’s cap hit.

So Carr/Mack’s hit of ~26% would be high, but not astronomical IMO. Especially since you can play with the numbers a little bit and a lot of the numbers I used were estimates/projections.

EDIT: Here are the 2019 top 2 cap hits (based on a projected cap of $191M) that obviously doesn’t include guys set to be FAs this offseason:

Vikings: 22% (Rhodes and Kirk)

Chargers: 22% (Rivers and Ingram)

Steelers: 24% (Ben and Brown)

Giants: 23% (Eli and OBJ)

Patriots: 21% (Brady and Gilmore)

Seahawks: 20% (Wilson and Wagner)

Packers: 22% (Rodgers and Perry)

Panthers: 21% (Cam and Kuechly)

Buccaneers: 21% (Winston and Evans)

Dolphins: 22% (Tannehill and Jones)

Lions: 23% (Stafford and Slay)

Saints: 26% (Brees and Armstead)

Raiders with Mack and Carr: 22%

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Yin-Yang

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Here’s the rest of the league’s top 2 players % wise (note, this is for the 2018 cap and goes by %, not AAV, so it’s not apples-to-apples)

Browns: 13% (Taylor and Landry)

Colts: 19% (Luck and Hilton)

49ers: 21% (Jimmy and Staley)

Texans: 16% (Watt and Hopkins)

Titans: 13% (Ryan and Casey)

Jets: 10% (Tru and McCown)

Bengals: 17% (Dalton and Atkins)

Raiders: 19% (Carr and Osemele)

Dolphins: 12% (Quinn and Branch)

Redskins: 20% (Smith and Norman)

Ravens: 19% (Flacco and Yanda)

Cowboys: 19% (Tyron and D-Law*)

Falcons: 17% (Ryan and Tru)

Cardinals: 18% (Fitz and Chandler)

Bills: 10% (Hughes and Clay)

Bears: 13% (Mack* and Robinson)

Chiefs: 19% (Houston and Fisher)

Jags: 16% (Campbell and Jackson)

Lions: 24% (Stafford and Ansah*)

Patriots: 19% (Brady and Gilmore)

Seahawks: 21% (Wilson and Wagner)

Buccaneers: 17% (Evans and McCoy)

Steelers: 21% (Ben and Bell*)

Vikings: 20% (Kirk and Rhodes)

Chargers: 21% (Rivers and Okung)

Eagles: 18% (Cox and Foles)

Rams: 14% (Joyner* and Suh)

Broncos: 14% (Case and Demaryius)

Panthers: 21% (Newton and Short)

Packers: 18% (Cobb and Rodgers)

Giants: 22% (Eli and Vernon)

Saints: 22% (Brees and Jordan)

Note: These numbers include guys with a (*) that are playing on a 5th year (like Mack) or a franchise tender - meaning those numbers are higher than you’d expect. Also contracts like Rodgers, OBJ, Mack, Donald, etc. are not factored in yet since their new money hasn’t kicked in for this year’s cap hit.

So Carr/Mack’s hit of ~26% would be high, but not astronomical IMO. Especially since you can play with the numbers a little bit and a lot of the numbers I used were estimates/projections.

1

Again, inherently it's not bad. But if your roster construction is lackluster (which ours unfortunately is at the moment), it definitely is. Based on this years draft, and the input of Paul Guenther into the picks that we made, I think we're going to try to build our team/defense like the Vikes/Bengals. Which is why I'm expecting us to take a corner and linebacker/DE fairly early next year. Not sure it'll work, but we'll need a lot of picks/players to build a defense in that mold.

[Nabbs4u]

7 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Exactly. Be prepared to pay the money to keep him. I’d understand if you were in an either or situation. 

 

A lot of people are saying that and we don’t know if that’s definitive or not. Some say that is the case and others say that is not case.

You're not going to get that answer either!

 

Can't exactly come out and tell your Fan base. Hey not only are we moving the Team, but we don't currently have the resources needed to extend our best player! Sorry for that but please keep buying tickets and merchandise until we leave! Thanks, sincerely yours Mark Davis.

 

https://raiderswire-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/raiderswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/01/raiders-owner-mark-davis-lacked-funds-to-pay-khalil-mack/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fraiderswire.usatoday.com%2F2018%2F09%2F01%2Fraiders-owner-mark-davis-lacked-funds-to-pay-khalil-mack%2F

Edited September 5, 2018 by Nabbs4u

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Again, inherently it's not bad. But if your roster construction is lackluster (which ours unfortunately is at the moment), it definitely is. Based on this years draft, and the input of Paul Guenther into the picks that we made, I think we're going to try to build our team/defense like the Vikes/Bengals. Which is why I'm expecting us to take a corner and linebacker/DE fairly early next year. Not sure it'll work, but we'll need a lot of picks/players to build a defense in that mold.

I didn’t comment on any of that. Just posting the numbers. Carr and Mack’s 2019 numbers aren’t much higher than a fair number of other’s. 

[PACKRULE]

The Bears won this trade now and the Raiders will win in a few years when they get those pics in house if they pan out. But in 5 years no one will even talk about this trade so who cares. The NFL is a right now league. The Bears have a good defense already and adding a premiere rush end just made them better. In Oakland he was the defense in Chicago he won't have to be. This is way better then when the Bears reached on Peppers. Pace has made some nice moves and he's banking on his moves. As much as I hate it they have done well and likely the cap management will be fine.