Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[candyman93]

So who does Cersei have left on her side?

The iron bank is going to be pissed too.

[PARROTHEAD]

2 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Why is everybody acting like the Dothraki wouldn't stand a chance against that army if not for Drogon?  Bronn literally said they were about to be overrun even before Drogon showed up, and he was right.  There's precedent in reality of warriors fighting completely naked.  They were inspired by the Mongols, Huns, Alans and Turks, as well as Native American tribes, and they would have done just fine against that army without Drogon.  They would have lost more lives, but they still would easily have won that battle. 

Over 20k Dothraki once took on 6k Unsullied. Unsullied killed over 12k of them, including all their leaders before being forced to retreat. 18 times the Dothraki charged, and were repelled every time.

Remember Jorah in the Dothraki camp talking about the swords. Saying how their sword would be worthless against armor on the ground, cause theyre designed for being on horseback with the curved design, no stabbing power to bust through armor.

I dont see the Dothraki standing the slightest chance if not for the dragons presence.

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Why is everybody acting like the Dothraki wouldn't stand a chance against that army if not for Drogon?  Bronn literally said they were about to be overrun even before Drogon showed up, and he was right.  There's precedent in reality of warriors fighting completely naked.  They were inspired by the Mongols, Huns, Alans and Turks, as well as Native American tribes, and they would have done just fine against that army without Drogon.  They would have lost more lives, but they still would easily have won that battle. 

Going back into season 1 even Rob Bartatheon was terrified of the idea of fighting the Dothraki. Said something like "Only a fool would fight them outside a castle". Did you see their technique? Stand on the horse shooting arrows, use the horses like a battering ram to trample people/break lines, jump over the lines and attack from both sides. They were going to crush the Lannisters... Especially since they had 100k soldiers and the other army was ~10k.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

So who does Cersei have left on her side?

The iron bank is going to be pissed too.

Nah, shes about to give the iron bank a buttload of money. And she still has the greatest armada. She is likely to hire an all-mer army. But her position was severely weakened with the loss of the Tarly/Lanister army.

[El Ramster]

5 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Over 20k Dothraki once took on 6k Unsullied. Unsullied killed over 12k of them, including all their leaders before being forced to retreat. 18 times the Dothraki charged, and were repelled every time.

Remember Jorah in the Dothraki camp talking about the swords. Saying how their sword would be worthless against armor on the ground, cause theyre designed for being on horseback with the curved design, no stabbing power to bust through armor.

I dont see the Dothraki standing the slightest chance if not for the dragons presence.

I mean the Unsullied are like the spartans of this universe. Pretty sure they still had more numbers and could have 

continued to fight them till death..

 

[MacReady]

Just now, PARROTHEAD said:

Over 20k Dothraki once took on 6k Unsullied. Unsullied killed over 12k of them, including all their leaders before being forced to retreat. 18 times the Dothraki charged, and were repelled every time.

You're forgetting the one aspect of the Unsullied that's not like other armies... They're made to be fearless, to be mindless, to obey.  They're an army with heavy armor, heavy shields and spears.  Exclusively. 

I'll make it really simple for those of you in doubt:

The Dothraki were riding their horses downhill towards about half as many Lannisters to Dothraki.  The horses were battering rams to break the lines.  They would have broken the lines, caused disorder and destroyed that Lannister/Tully force through attrition and fear.  Unsullied the Lannisters were not. 

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Over 20k Dothraki once took on 6k Unsullied. Unsullied killed over 12k of them, including all their leaders before being forced to retreat. 18 times the Dothraki charged, and were repelled every time.

Remember Jorah in the Dothraki camp talking about the swords. Saying how their sword would be worthless against armor on the ground, cause theyre designed for being on horseback with the curved design, no stabbing power to bust through armor.

I dont see the Dothraki standing the slightest chance if not for the dragons presence.

They were on horse back though...? And an off handed comment by Jorah is probably not gospel. Do you also remember how him beating a Dothraki in single combat was probably his greatest combat feat of his life? I really think you are over emphasizing the advantage of armor. I mean, just think about it:

 

One side had ~10k that just finished battle, were transporting a bunch of stuff and were endangered of being flogged because they were too tired/moving to slow.

vs

The other side had ~100k, all mounted on horse, all completely fresh/fed/full of energy and are considered one of the most dangerous armies on the planet. They also had the element of surprise and fear as the enemy had never experiences the screaming/fighting style before.

 

They were winning no matter what.

[RavensTillIDie]

7 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

They were on horse back though...? And an off handed comment by Jorah is probably not gospel. Do you also remember how him beating a Dothraki in single combat was probably his greatest combat feat of his life? I really think you are over emphasizing the advantage of armor. I mean, just think about it:

 

One side had ~10k that just finished battle, were transporting a bunch of stuff and were endangered of being flogged because they were too tired/moving to slow.

vs

The other side had ~100k, all mounted on horse, all completely fresh/fed/full of energy and are considered one of the most dangerous armies on the planet. They also had the element of surprise and fear as the enemy had never experiences the screaming/fighting style before.

 

They were winning no matter what.

Not to mention while armor does improve your defense, it also weighs you down and slows your movement. That is compounded by the fact that most of the soldiers were also wielding long swords. The Dothraki had the inherent quickness advantage due to a lack of armor and their use of short, compact blades.  As we saw from the show, the Dothraki were well prepared for their armor clad opponents, aiming strictly for vulnerabilities in their armor such as the neck and legs. Combine all that with the fact that the Dothraki have a "glory in death" mentality and are fighting passionately for a leader they truly believe in vs a group of soldiers merely serving the crown out of necessity and you can see why it stands the reason the soldiers had no chance, even without Drogon.

[scar988]

28 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Why is everybody acting like the Dothraki wouldn't stand a chance against that army if not for Drogon?  Bronn literally said they were about to be overrun even before Drogon showed up, and he was right.  There's precedent in reality of warriors fighting completely naked.  They were inspired by the Mongols, Huns, Alans and Turks, as well as Native American tribes, and they would have done just fine against that army without Drogon.  They would have lost more lives, but they still would easily have won that battle. 

Also, people are forgeting the possibility of their weapons being valyrian steel and therefore stronger and lighter due to them being from Essos.

[cddolphin]

Just now, scar988 said:

Also, people are forgeting the possibility of their weapons being valyrian steel and therefore stronger and lighter due to them being from Essos.

They aren't, and the fact that they're from Essos doesn't necessarily make them more likely to be Valyrian steel. In the books, Valyrian-steel arakhs are exceedingly rare and only one is ever mentioned.

[PARROTHEAD]

6 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You're forgetting the one aspect of the Unsullied that's not like other armies... They're made to be fearless, to be mindless, to obey.  They're an army with heavy armor, heavy shields and spears.  Exclusively. 

I'll make it really simple for those of you in doubt:

The Dothraki were riding their horses downhill towards about half as many Lannisters to Dothraki.  The horses were battering rams to break the lines.  They would have broken the lines, caused disorder and destroyed that Lannister/Tully force through attrition and fear.  Unsullied the Lannisters were not. 

Unsullied armies arnt heavily armored. They where leather breast shield and a metal helmet. Lannister army is top in regard of armor.

The horses would of had great effect. But half of the Lannister force there were archers. Approaching there should of been a pile of horses and men from volleys of arrows. But all shown was a random Dothraki going down here and there. Hard to keep charging when its basically ski mongols made of horses piled up in front of you.

Now if it was all 100k Dothraki, than thats different. But I wasnt guessing it was more than 15-20k because they just dont have the ships, food supply line or time to march from Dragonstone to The Reach.

But way I see. The archers should of had more impact than that 1st attack on Troy in the movie. Cause those guys had shields and were still falling like mad cause of sheer number of arrows in the air. Couple thousand arrows up 3 times a minute against 15-20k unarmored troops is about as lethal as things could get. But again, if it was all 100k, totally different story.

[cddolphin]

5 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Now if it was all 100k Dothraki, than thats different. But I wasnt guessing it was more than 15-20k because they just dont have the ships, food supply line or time to march from Dragonstone to The Reach.

They were in the Reach in the beginning of the episode, but the battle happened near the Blackwater Rush which closer to King's Landing. Some of their men had already arrived in King's Landing by that point, both of these things were mentioned by Lord Tarly just before the battle.

Easy to get confused, but I'm guessing at least a couple weeks passed between the beginning of the episode when they were near Highgarden, and the end of the episode.

[MacReady]

@PARROTHEAD, yeah, there weren't 100,000 Dothraki.  But there weren't 10,000 Lannisters, either.  They were heavily outnumbered, and those lines were going to get broken with or without a dragon.  How many archers did they have?  Three dozen? 

I just re-watched the scene.  Their line was three men deep.  It looked like less than three dozen archers.  There was literally a shot of the horses breaking through the line rather easily without the aid of fire.  Once at 1:57, again at 2:07.  Look at when Jaime calls for the archers @ 2:34.  Your argument is wrong.  Just accept it so I can stop arguing it because they weren't going to hold 6,000 Dothraki much less 15,000. 

 

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

Yeah, not sure why people think the Dothraki wouldn't be able to handle them.

An army w/ a lot of horses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An army w/ very little horses

[skywindO2]

It was a surprise attack too, the Lannister army barely had time to form ranks. They were an army on the march, not one prepared to fight.