Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[JonStark]

2 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

I was explaining to y'all why people were upset about Jaimie's arc. That's why they're upset. I don't really care if you don't agree.

Cersei and Jaime went out in a completely weak fashion that completely denied them their deserved endings. That's what I believe. Whether Arya or Jaimie did it, it should have been more than just fading to black.

 

I can't really disagree, as I did want a little more. However Cersei dying knowing that her child won't get to live because of her probably hurts her more than any gruesome death could. 

[Leader]

1 minute ago, nagahide13 said:

Cersei and Jaime went out in a completely weak fashion that completely denied them their deserved endings. That's what I believe. Whether Arya or Jaimie did it, it should have been more than just fading to black.

If you gave it more thought you might consider the way they died perfectly consistent with their story lines.

[skywindO2]

23 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

Why does Dany wait until the city has surrendered to go all mad queen? She could have done it at any point, but waited until it was literally hers. Why does Arya pull that mother and daughter out of safety and into certain death? Why is it so certain that Dany will go mad but Jon won't? What was the point of Arya's entire Bravosi storyline? Just to kill Frey? Bleh. No wonder GRRM hated this season.

Jaime was supposed to strangle Cersei. That's why people are upset about his "arc".

Since her arrival in Westeros, all she's wanted to do is burn down King's Landing and her advisers have always talked her down. This was the closest she's been to it and had no one there to tell her not to. 

[Leader]

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

They basically constantly teased that he would redeem himself, and he sort of did, by going against Cersei to fight the Night King, but then slipped back.

Correct. Throughout GOT (TV version) he continually "went away" from Cersei - only to eventually come back. He'd show a "reluctant" good heart - only to come back.  Their dying together makes perfect sense IMO.

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I'll have to rewatch the episode, but I'm pretty sure he says something to Jon about how many kings he's served and bailed on to prove a point that Jon is the best of them. Wouldn't freeing Tyrion count as defiance? 

Either way, Varys always served the realm over a king, and he continued to do so to his death. Out of curiosity, what do you think a more fitting way for him to go out would be? 

The point is that Varys has never OPENLY defied any King he’s served. He’s either openly supported them without working against them, or openly supported them while working against them from the shadows. 

Freeing Tyrion was done from the shadows. No one knew he did it, or even suspected him, given how circumspect he was. 

Show Varys serves the realm before any King, sure. But when he serves the realm, he does so from the shadows, not in the open like a complete idiot. His character is supposed to be a political grand master.  They turned him into Ned Stark. 

If we were staying true to his character, he would have never spoken to Tyrion or Jon about his desires so openly, he would have found a way to kill Daenarys, and he would likely still be alive. If he had to go out, it would not be by following the noble Ned route. That’s ridiculous. 

[nagahide13]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

If you gave it more thought you might consider the way they died perfectly consistent with their story lines.

If you gave it more thought you might consider my opinion. Chill with the condescension.

Jaime and Cersei have equal parts love and hate for each other. I wanted to see that play out instead of the two collapsing into a quivering heap and fading to black. I wanted to see something like Arya killing Cersei at her absolute most vulnerable point while wearing Jaime's face, and Jaime to die over her corpse.

 

[JonStark]

Just now, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

The point is that Varys has never OPENLY defied any King he’s served. He’s either openly supported them without working against them, or openly supported them while working against them from the shadows. 

Freeing Tyrion was done from the shadows. No one knew he did it, or even suspected him, given how circumspect he was. 

Show Varys serves the realm before any King, sure. But when he serves the realm, he does so from the shadows, not in the open like a complete idiot. His character is supposed to be a political grand master.  They turned him into Ned Stark. 

If we were staying true to his character, he would have never spoken to Tyrion or Jon about his desires so openly, he would have found a way to kill Daenarys, and he would likely still be alive. If he had to go out, it would not be by following the noble Ned route. That’s ridiculous. 

Fair enough, but I don't think at at that point, he had time to work in the shadows. Dany was ready to go and he didn't have much of a choice other than to speak up for the good of the realm.

Not to mention he swore to Dany that instead of going behind her back, he would be upfront about it. That actually shows growth on his part. 

[Leader]

1 minute ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

The point is that Varys has never OPENLY defied any King he’s served. He’s either openly supported them without working against them, or openly supported them while working against them from the shadows. 

Freeing Tyrion was done from the shadows. No one knew he did it, or even suspected him, given how circumspect he was. 

Show Varys serves the realm before any King, sure. But when he serves the realm, he does so from the shadows, not in the open like a complete idiot. His character is supposed to be a political grand master.  They turned him into Ned Stark. 

If we were staying true to his character, he would have never spoken to Tyrion or Jon about his desires so openly, he would have found a way to kill Daenarys, and he would likely still be alive. If he had to go out, it would not be by following the noble Ned route. That’s ridiculous. 

At some point you're going to have to accept that it was all ending.

Sure - over the eons - Varys had worked in the shadows - because they had time to write in how his actual efforts were having effect some multiple shows down the line. No such time existed and they had to establish the growing movement against Dany - provide Jon Stark "pause to think" about her - and validate the reasons for his death.

[Superman(DH23)]

I for 1 thought the episode was damn near perfect.  Varys 1 last time serving the good of the realm, and that moment between he and Tyrion (honestly thought Tyrion had slipped him something, especially with the look Varys gave him).  The madness they portrayed with Dany from the recap, all the way thru the last shot of her on top of Drogon right before she reduced kings landing to ashes.  The look on Jon's face the moment he realizes that Dany has lost it and what she is becoming.  As well as his reaction to having to kill a northman under his command to save the innocent.  The use of the golden company and the complete expectation subversion of making their presence pointless as we see the equivalent of a Westerosi nuke unleashed.  The conclusion of the father-daughter arc of of Arya and Sandor, and the moment when Arya must once again face the God of death.  Lena Headey being the badass actress she is and making me sympathetic to one of the most despicable characters on the show in the moment with her and Jaime when we see that underneath it all she is still human.  (Dont be shocked if 1 or both are still alive btw folks) and now Dany is queen of the ashes.  There is no iron throne left.  Just amazing execution and a reminder that GOT has made 70 damn movies, not episodes of TV shows.  This was the most successful cinematic universe of all time.  

[nagahide13]

I thought the Varys ending was solid. He represents the people, so his execution was essentially an admission that Dany was going to burn King's Landing. She could have spared him and proved herself capable of mercy, but she didn't, and that was essential.

[nagahide13]

I just finished a couple of hours ago. I'm still upset. I need to cool off. 

I definitely liked the direction they went in almost all scenarios. I just thought timing and lead-in and logic were often thrown to the wind, and that was too bad.

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

If you gave it more thought you might consider my opinion. Chill with the condescension.

Jaime and Cersei have equal parts love and hate for each other. I wanted to see that play out instead of the two collapsing into a quivering heap and fading to black. I wanted to see something like Arya killing Cersei at her absolute most vulnerable point while wearing Jaime's face, and Jaime to die over her corpse.

I did consider what you wrote and responded w/o condensation.

"Jaime and Cersei have equal parts love and hate for each other. I wanted to see that play out....."

Okay. Fine. Play it out for us. How should it have been portrayed? And this: "I wanted to see something like Arya killing Cersei at her absolute most vulnerable point while wearing Jaime's face, and Jaime to die over her corpse"

Has nothing to do with their character story lines. Thats you making things up.

[Broncofan]

 

 

 

2

7 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

The point is that Varys has never OPENLY defied any King he’s served. He’s either openly supported them without working against them, or openly supported them while working against them from the shadows. 

Freeing Tyrion was done from the shadows. No one knew he did it, or even suspected him, given how circumspect he was. 

Show Varys serves the realm before any King, sure. But when he serves the realm, he does so from the shadows, not in the open like a complete idiot. His character is supposed to be a political grand master.  They turned him into Ned Stark. 

If we were staying true to his character, he would have never spoken to Tyrion or Jon about his desires so openly, he would have found a way to kill Daenarys, and he would likely still be alive. If he had to go out, it would not be by following the noble Ned route. That’s ridiculous. 

 

4 minutes ago, JonStark said:

Fair enough, but I don't think at at that point, he had time to work in the shadows. Dany was ready to go and he didn't have much of a choice other than to speak up for the good of the realm.

Not to mention he swore to Dany that instead of going behind her back, he would be upfront about it. That actually shows growth on his part. 

Let's face it, if we had more eps, Varys could have gone the "behind the shadows" routine.   But the timing of the reveal for Jon-aka-Aegon left no way out.   

Given that very serious restriction, I did love how he faced it straight up, no whimpering, he just owned it.   That was pure Varys all the way.

[Ty21]

I thought it was weird when that dude ran off from the pack to die from dragon fire in the alleyway but it turns out that was Aaron Rodgers doing a cameo appearance. Kinda lame 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, JonStark said:

Fair enough, but I don't think at at that point, he had time to work in the shadows. Dany was ready to go and he didn't have much of a choice other than to speak up for the good of the realm.

Not to mention he swore to Dany that instead of going behind her back, he would be upfront about it. That actually shows growth on his part. 

It shows severe regression in perhaps Westeros’ most politically astute player. 

He had time to plot a contingency plan from the beginning of season 6, when he first started having doubts about Dany. Even if you want to say he didn’t have a realistic alternative at that point, he still has time to work towards her downfall without being such an idiot about it. 

Whatever though, it’s not like I expected better. Just disappointed with the way they’ve made the most complex and interesting characters in this world flat and boring.