2019 Draft Discussion

[MacReady]

49 minutes ago, fattlipp said:

Metcalf is a much better prospect than our current WRs

player comparisons,

Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, David Boston

 

If he didn't have med flags he would be treated like Julio in this draft.

 

Course you wouldn't know this cause you don't watch college football...lol

and why do you keep changing your username HZ

Oooooooooh, burn.  Because I don't watch college football I'm completely incapable of an opinion on what positions are/aren't good to draft early.  I'm gonna need some medical attention after that burn.  

[CWood21]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:55 PM, Redt said:

You keep choosing to ignore cogent rationale for drafting D. White and pounding the table because you don't agree, we all get it and you repeating your point doesn't make it anymore valid. I would love to see both Martinez and White on the field for all three downs which is totally doable based on White's skill set. Yet, you prefer J. Jones in that role, okay.

I'll go with the easier one.  He's not BPA, and he's not a position of value.

[CWood21]

13 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

I don’t know why everyone’s disagreeing with @Packerraymond here. If I’m understanding correctly he  basically agrees with all of you on premium positions but is saying if the board was a disaster for GB at 12, he’d take GBs BPA ( if it was White) or examine a trade back. That’s not controversial.  Shoot, we saw Gutey do it to an extent in 2018 when he didn’t like the edge players and said so in a confrence.

Sometimes I think some would rather draft a ****ty player at a premium position than an elite player at a “non premium” position.

That's not what is being argued here, and you know it.  We're not arguing that you should take a guy you have graded out as a Day 2 prospect and select him over Devin White who you have a top 10 grade on.  No, we're arguing that if the grades are even close, you go with the guy who plays the more valuable position.  I'll use the 2017 draft as an example.  I had Marcus Lattimore and Malik Hooker as relatively similarly graded players, so how do you decide who you're taking?  You're going to take into account the depth at each position in the draft, the current composition of the franchise and many other factors.  But in terms of which one is more valuable, I'd argue that Lattimore is more valuable than Hooker because he plays the more valuable position.  Now if you're comparing Lattimore (Top 10 grade) to Haason Redick (Top 20 grade) you're comparing a slightly less valuable position (CB), but a slightly more superior prospect.  Now let's use Reuben Foster he was my last guy graded with a top 10 grade.  Is taking Reuben Foster more valuable than moving down and picking up an extra pick and taking a more valuable position?  I'd argue that taking Marlon Humphrey with an extra 3rd round pick is more valuable than taking Reuben Foster at your original pick.

[MacReady]

2015 - everybody wanted Stephone Anthony.  Even Randall was the better pick.

2016 - everybody wanted Myles Jack.  Thank God they didn't get their wish.

2017 - everybody wanted Hassan Reddick.

2018 - everybody wanted Roquan Smith or LVE.  

Our last two first round ILB picks were Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk.  

I don't get it.  

[Arthur Penske]

20 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Oooooooooh, burn.  Because I don't watch college football I'm completely incapable of an opinion on what positions are/aren't good to draft early.  I'm gonna need some medical attention after that burn.  

I mean, it's a pretty fair point. How can you know who prospects are if you don't even pay attention to them?

[Arthur Penske]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

2015 - everybody wanted Stephone Anthony.  Even Randall was the better pick.

2016 - everybody wanted Myles Jack.  Thank God they didn't get their wish.

2017 - everybody wanted Hassan Reddick.

2018 - everybody wanted Roquan Smith or LVE.  

Our last two first round ILB picks were Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk.  

I don't get it.  

By everybody, do you mean a few people?

[Arthur Penske]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

That's not what is being argued here, and you know it.  We're not arguing that you should take a guy you have graded out as a Day 2 prospect and select him over Devin White who you have a top 10 grade on.  No, we're arguing that if the grades are even close, you go with the guy who plays the more valuable position.  I'll use the 2017 draft as an example.  I had Marcus Lattimore and Malik Hooker as relatively similarly graded players, so how do you decide who you're taking?  You're going to take into account the depth at each position in the draft, the current composition of the franchise and many other factors.  But in terms of which one is more valuable, I'd argue that Lattimore is more valuable than Hooker because he plays the more valuable position.  Now if you're comparing Lattimore (Top 10 grade) to Haason Redick (Top 20 grade) you're comparing a slightly less valuable position (CB), but a slightly more superior prospect.  Now let's use Reuben Foster he was my last guy graded with a top 10 grade.  Is taking Reuben Foster more valuable than moving down and picking up an extra pick and taking a more valuable position?  I'd argue that taking Marlon Humphrey with an extra 3rd round pick is more valuable than taking Reuben Foster at your original pick.

Evidently not. Lol.

But the second bolded part is not what is being argued by some at all. That is what I take issue with.

[CWood21]

Just now, Arthur Penske said:

Evidently not. Lol.

But the second bolded part is not what is being argued by some at all. That is what I take issue with.

I disagree.  Nobody is arguing going off the reservation and taking someone whose drastically down the board simply because they're more valuable.  They're arguing that if the gap isn't that big (i.e top 10 vs. top 20 grades), you're better off taking the more valuable position.  I don't really have an issue with that argument.  And I think there's a very legitimate argument that moving down and picking up an extra pick is more valuable than taking a less valuable position.

[MacReady]

11 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Evidently not. Lol.

But the second bolded part is not what is being argued by some at all. That is what I take issue with.

Lol.  I have literally said twice in this thread the opposite.

I have literally outlined it as plainly as possible.

It's literally less than two pages back when I said that:

If the NFL could be outlined as:

Elite, great, good, average, below average, bad...

I'd have to believe that an ILB/TE/WR/IOL is two notches above a more important position.

And yeah, I stand by that.  If you think Devin White is going to be elite and if you think Ferrel is going to be great, you take Ferrel.  If yo think Devin White is going to be elite and you think Ferrel is only going to be good, you take White.

At 12th overall, you're not getting that gap.  It is literally impossible based on who is literally guaranteed to be available at 12th overall regardless of whether or not a QB is taken.

So this statement of yours that I just quoted is not only false, it is demonstrably, probably, unequivocally false.  

[AlexGreen#20]

Don't draft ILBs, RBs, IOL, in the first round. 

End statement. 

[vegas492]

21 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

2015 - everybody wanted Stephone Anthony.  Even Randall was the better pick.

2016 - everybody wanted Myles Jack.  Thank God they didn't get their wish.

2017 - everybody wanted Hassan Reddick.

2018 - everybody wanted Roquan Smith or LVE.  

Our last two first round ILB picks were Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk.  

I don't get it.  

What I wanted...in order...

2015...Malcolm Brown...Eric Kendricks.  And even Kendricks went second round, which is a better spot for an off ball linebacker.  Brown has been steady, yet unspectacular.

2016...Noah Spence...Reggie Ragland....Chris Jones.  Two bad whiffs on my part.  Jones has been very good.  My "trousers" comment about Clark keeps coming back at me, and I can admit, I was wrong...again.  Clark is very good.  

2017...Kevin King.  All day long.  We got him and I'm thrilled.  If that kid is healthy, watch out.  He's got it all.

2018...Fitzpatrick was my guy.  Went before GB.  Next on my list was Davenport.  Didn't even look at Alexander.  Again I whiffed.

Conclusion:  GB should be happy I don't draft for them!

[Arthur Penske]

22 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I disagree.  Nobody is arguing going off the reservation and taking someone whose drastically down the board simply because they're more valuable.  They're arguing that if the gap isn't that big (i.e top 10 vs. top 20 grades), you're better off taking the more valuable position.  I don't really have an issue with that argument.  And I think there's a very legitimate argument that moving down and picking up an extra pick is more valuable than taking a less valuable position.

Outpost literally stated he'd rather not have a first round DP than take a WR  ( Randy Moss) where he went in 1998. I'd say that's a bit off the reservation.

No one said anything against moving down, including me. But it takes two to tango on a trade.

[pacman5252]

17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

2015 - everybody wanted Stephone Anthony.  Even Randall was the better pick.

2016 - everybody wanted Myles Jack.  Thank God they didn't get their wish.

2017 - everybody wanted Hassan Reddick.

2018 - everybody wanted Roquan Smith or LVE.  

Our last two first round ILB picks were Nick Barnett and AJ Hawk.  

I don't get it.  

I feel like you have a narrative in your head. The only guys Packer fans on this list wanted were LVE whos a stud, Jack (since he was projected top 5, but was the prospect who fell because of a knee... still is a top 30-40 4-3 LB), and you left of Edmunds

2015- picking 30, we wanted whoever fell, but primarily we wanted best available corner or rusher- took Randall

2016- picking 27, we wanted whoever fell, but primarily need was DT, corner, or pass rusher - picked Clark... wasn't the number 1 choice but worked out at what we wanted

2017-  picking 30, we wanted Watt, Dalvin Cook, or King- trade down King

2018- Originally at 14, we wanted Davenport, James, Ward/Alexander, LVE,  Edmunds (who should be the LB you are talking about when complaining about ILBs IMO)

 

 

[MacReady]

  

6 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Outpost literally stated he'd rather not have a first round DP than take a WR  ( Randy Moss) where he went in 1998. I'd say that's a bit off the reservation.

No one said anything against moving down, including me. But it takes two to tango on a trade.

I think you're smart enough to know that's hyperbole.  Still, no, I would not want Randy Moss on my team.  Ever.  Neither him nor Terrel Owens.  Unless we were rebuilding and had zero talent on defense whatsoever and zero shot at winning a Super Bowl and we just needed someone for a young QB to throw to to get confidence.  That's the only use for locker cancers like them.

So yeah, you're right, I wouldn't ever use a first round pick on any players with the selfishness and diva mentality of those two receivers.  Ever.  But that has zero to do with their position.  Sorry you couldn't understand that.

0-3 in Super Bowls.  Edelman has two.  I'm taking the selfless okay receiver 99,999 times out of 99,999 times.  Absolutely.  

You put Donald Driver's brain and personality in them?  Yep, I'd use a first there.  

How long you gonna try to use this one against me while completely neglecting the point of what I was saying?  Forever?

[pacman5252]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Outpost literally stated he'd rather not have a first round DP than take a WR  ( Randy Moss) where he went in 1998. I'd say that's a bit off the reservation.

No one said anything against moving down, including me. But it takes two to tango on a trade.

Agreed, there are some "value position" nazis on this board. If it isn't a Edge, Corner, LT, or QB in round 1, they'll complain and come up with some type of justification that there are 3-5 instances of position X panning out between picks 31-70 in the last 10 years and it is more important to trade down.