Is Alvin Kamara the best Running Back in the NFL?

[GamedayGuru]

Kamara with 181 yards and 3 touchdowns today btw. with his best run up the gut for like a 60 yard TD. 

[GamedayGuru]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Just google it. I don't know how today will change things, but it's clear if you look up their stats that what I said was true. How does that happen despite Kamara's yards per touch being higher? Because Kamara has a higher share of receptions compared to rushes.

Kamara is earning those higher reception #'s because he can't be covered, u can't use that as an argument against him lol. 

[Jakuvious]

10 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said:

How? Gurley = 5.7 yards per touch

Kamara = 6.4 yards per touch

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GurlTo01.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KamaAl00.htm

Maybe they figured in punt return yards or something, I don't get it. It says gurley more YPC for rushing and rec, but has kamara with higher yards per touch. 

Gonna give you a simpler math sample to break it down:
Player A: 10 carries 70 yards (7 per), 5 catches for 50 yards (10 per), 15 touches for 120 yards (8 yards per touch)

Player B: 5 carries 30 yards (6 per), 10 catches for 95 yards (9.5 per), 15 touches for 125 yards (8.33 yards per touch)

Yards per touch is primarily a function of rushes versus catches, for a RB. A lesser receiving back (for example, not referring to Kamara here) is still going to average more yards per catch than per rush because that's the nature of the average yards per play of the two. So you're better off being less efficient per carry and per catch, but having a higher amount of catches, than being more efficient per carry and per catch, but having a higher amount of carries. Kamara only averages more per touch because a higher percentage of his touches are catches, which yield higher yardage.

[Jlowe22]

Well, Kamara just went for 134 yards on 19 carries with 3 TDs.  7.1 yards/carry.  And 5 rec for 43 yards.

I don't watch enough other teams to claim Kamara is better or worse than other players, but all I know is that he's been really damn good, week in, and week out. 

Yes, he plays with Brees, yes he gets some good blocks on some long runs.  Doesn't take away form the fact that he looks like a pretty special player.

[GamedayGuru]

3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Gonna give you a simpler math sample to break it down:
Player A: 10 carries 70 yards (7 per), 5 catches for 50 yards (10 per), 15 touches for 120 yards (8 yards per touch)

Player B: 5 carries 30 yards (6 per), 10 catches for 95 yards (9.5 per), 15 touches for 125 yards (8.33 yards per touch)

Yards per touch is primarily a function of rushes versus catches, for a RB. A lesser receiving back (for example, not referring to Kamara here) is still going to average more yards per catch than per rush because that's the nature of the average yards per play of the two. So you're better off being less efficient per carry and per catch, but having a higher amount of catches, than being more efficient per carry and per catch, but having a higher amount of carries. Kamara only averages more per touch because a higher percentage of his touches are catches, which yield higher yardage.

thank u sir. good post. i actually figured it out after jrry broke it down, i now feel like an idiot. 

[jrry32]

7 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said:

better runner yes, comparable reciever is a debate, better pass protector? No, Kamara is an absolute animal in pass protection and destroys everyone. SP said it was his best quality even over his catching, but whatever, u know. 

6 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said:

Ok then, so per touch it means Kamara has a better output than Gurley, does it matter if it comes thru the ground or the air? If ur playing the RB position i don't think it does. 

Yes, it matters. The Rams have a trio of stud WRs. They don't feed Gurley targets in the passing game. 

[GamedayGuru]

Just now, Jlowe22 said:

Well, Kamara just went for 134 yards on 19 carries with 3 TDs.  7.1 yards/carry.  And 5 rec for 43 yards.

I don't watch enough other teams to claim Kamara is better or worse than other players, but all I know is that he's been really damn good, week in, and week out. 

Yes, he plays with Brees, yes he gets some good blocks on some long runs.  Doesn't take away form the fact that he looks like a pretty special player.

and he did it up the gut, outside the tackle, and catching, he's the best all around RB in the league IMO. 

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, Jlowe22 said:

Well, Kamara just went for 134 yards on 19 carries with 3 TDs.  7.1 yards/carry.  And 5 rec for 43 yards.

I don't watch enough other teams to claim Kamara is better or worse than other players, but all I know is that he's been really damn good, week in, and week out. 

Yes, he plays with Brees, yes he gets some good blocks on some long runs.  Doesn't take away form the fact that he looks like a pretty special player.

We can certainly agree on that.

[GamedayGuru]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yes, it matters. The Rams have a trio of stud WRs. They don't feed Gurley targets in the passing game. 

good stat, thing is kamara rarely stays in to block i guess, but what i do know is i have seen kamara pass block and seen him decleat people, if i remember correctly sean payton said kamara had zero blown pass blocking attempts last year half way thru the season. i've already said gurley and bell are the 2 best RB's in the league, but i still believe kamara is #3, but the better of them all in the open field with the ball. 

[jrry32]

6 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said:

Kamara is earning those higher reception #'s because he can't be covered, u can't use that as an argument against him lol. 

Kamara is a great receiving HB, but he's getting those numbers because that's the offense. Brees and Payton love hitting the HB. Look at 2013 when Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas each had 70+ receptions. Sproles had 86 receptions in 2011. Reggie Bush had 88 receptions as a rookie in 2006. It has always been the offense.

[GamedayGuru]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Kamara is a great receiving HB, but he's getting those numbers because that's the offense. Brees and Payton love hitting the HB. Look at 2013 when Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas each had 70+ receptions. Sproles had 86 receptions in 2011. Reggie Bush had 88 receptions as a rookie in 2006. It has always been the offense.

I know a lot of it has to do with the system, BUT I also know a lot of it does not, I have been around and watched bush and pierre and sproles and they were great, but they are not kamara, kamara is special, all i'm saying. 

[GamedayGuru]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Kamara is a great receiving HB, but he's getting those numbers because that's the offense. Brees and Payton love hitting the HB. Look at 2013 when Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas each had 70+ receptions. Sproles had 86 receptions in 2011. Reggie Bush had 88 receptions as a rookie in 2006. It has always been the offense.

and he isn't just a pass catching back, he runs over people, he had 3 TD's up the gut today where he made people miss or broke tackles. Kamara actually had MORE broken and forced missed tackles last year than gurley on less attempts if i remember correctly. he was leading the stat by a large margin on way less touches. so he's basically damned if he does or damned if he doesn't as far as volume goes. Point is he has proven he can get it done in limited or full attempts. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by GamedayGuru

[tyler735]

Kamara if my math is correct, is now averaging right around 5 yards per carry this season. He is on pace for 1,100 rushing yards, 1,344 yards receiving, and 24 total touchdowns.  In other words he certainly has an argument for being among the best if not best in the NFL.

Edited September 30, 2018 by tyler735

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, GamedayGuru said:

and he isn't just a pass catching back, he runs over people, he had 3 TD's up the gut today where he made people miss or broke tackles. Kamara actually had MORE broken and forced missed tackles last year than gurley on less attempts if i remember correctly. he was leading the stat by a large margin on way less touches. so he's basically damned if he does or damned if he doesn't as far as volume goes. Point is he has proven he can get it done in limited or full attempts. 

I'm not calling him just a receiving HB. I'm saying that the large amount of receptions and targets are because of the system. If you put another top HB like Bell, Johnson, or Gurley in the system, they'd be getting fed targets too.

[GamedayGuru]

Just now, jrry32 said:

I'm not calling him just a receiving HB. I'm saying that the large amount of receptions and targets are because of the system. If you put another top HB like Bell, Johnson, or Gurley in the system, they'd be getting fed targets too.

of course they would, I won't argue that, it's the system that we run, BUT all im saying is, kamara isn't a product of the system. what i do believe is that the 5 best RB's in the league are bell, gurley, kamara, zeke, and david johnson, and on a netural system they would all put up similiar numbers and are similar talents.