SBLIII Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Riftty said: He is truly amazing. However I have five bucks his production falls off fairly quickly. He is a speed back and it won't be long before being able to hit that edge super fast isn't there any more. That's why a back like Ingram is important to his success, Karmara isnt a work horse. If he was to carry the load like Gurley for more than a year or two he would break down. break down based on what? Kamara is weighting 215-220 pounds. He isn't small. He can run between the tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 12 hours ago, GamedayGuru said: Kamara: rushing - 275 - 4.9 YPC, receiving - 339 - 9.6 YPC, Total yards - 611, Yards per touch - 6.7, touchdowns - 6, fumbles - 0 Gurley: rushing - 338 - 4.3 YPC, receiving - 194 - 12.9 YPC, Total yards - 532, Yards per touch - 5.7 - touchdowns - 6, fumbles - 1 I think Melvin Gordon is pretty underrated as well. Think he has really improved lately and might be on the cusp of elite status. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 16 hours ago, Riftty said: He is truly amazing. However I have five bucks his production falls off fairly quickly. He is a speed back and it won't be long before being able to hit that edge super fast isn't there any more. That's why a back like Ingram is important to his success, Karmara isnt a work horse. If he was to carry the load like Gurley for more than a year or two he would break down. I agree with you on the first sentence, but I've never understood the logic of him not being able to be a "work horse" RB. He's shown to start the year he has no issue handling heavy workloads and still being productive. He has about as prototypical size as one could possibly want in a RB as well. He came into the league at 215lbs, and it isn't unreasonable to think he will get slightly bigger as he continues in the NFL. However even if he maintains a similar size, he is still bigger than these guys that went on to have solid NFL careers: Walter Payton- 5'10" 200lbs Barry Sanders- 5'8" 203lbs Frank Gore- 5'9" 212lbs Curtis Martin- 5'11" 210lbs Tony Dorsett- 5'11" 192lbs He is around 5lbs smaller than these guys: Emmitt Smith- 5'11" 221lbs LaDainian Tomlinson- 5'10" 221lbs Eric Dickerson- 6'3" 220lbs Adrian Peterson- 6'1" 220lbs In other words, Kamara is bigger than 4 of the top 5 rushing leaders in NFL history, and is around the same size (about 5lbs difference) compared to 9 of the top 10 leading rushers in NFL history (Jerome Bettis being the only one that was substantially bigger) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 34 minutes ago, tyler735 said: I've never understood the logic of him not being able to be a "work horse" RB. He's shown to start the year he has no issue handling heavy workloads and still being productive. I think the logic for some is that “believe it when we see it”. Kamara’s a beast but hasn’t shown to be a heavy workload back. He just doesn’t have the carries yet. Doesn’t mean he necessarily can’t/won’t, but it’ll be a question mark until it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: I think the logic for some is that “believe it when we see it”. Kamara’s a beast but hasn’t shown to be a heavy workload back. He just doesn’t have the carries yet. Doesn’t mean he necessarily can’t/won’t, but it’ll be a question mark until it happens. In a worst case scenario what do you expect to happen if he sees a heavy workload? Obviously we've seen a small sample size this year of "workhorse" level touches and Kamara hasn't been injured and is putting up crazy production still. I just don't follow the logic, he has over 1,000 yards rushing, and 1,000 yards receiving through 20 games, which means he's touched the ball plenty to start his career and has shown no signs of slowing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 hours ago, tyler735 said: I agree with you on the first sentence, but I've never understood the logic of him not being able to be a "work horse" RB. He's shown to start the year he has no issue handling heavy workloads and still being productive. He has about as prototypical size as one could possibly want in a RB as well. He came into the league at 215lbs, and it isn't unreasonable to think he will get slightly bigger as he continues in the NFL. However even if he maintains a similar size, he is still bigger than these guys that went on to have solid NFL careers: Walter Payton- 5'10" 200lbs Barry Sanders- 5'8" 203lbs Frank Gore- 5'9" 212lbs Curtis Martin- 5'11" 210lbs Tony Dorsett- 5'11" 192lbs He is around 5lbs smaller than these guys: Emmitt Smith- 5'11" 221lbs LaDainian Tomlinson- 5'10" 221lbs Eric Dickerson- 6'3" 220lbs Adrian Peterson- 6'1" 220lbs In other words, Kamara is bigger than 4 of the top 5 rushing leaders in NFL history, and is around the same size (about 5lbs difference) compared to 9 of the top 10 leading rushers in NFL history (Jerome Bettis being the only one that was substantially bigger) . I wouldnt use any RB before 1990 as an example. Also emmitt was about 5'9 210 at his heaviest. And the reason why he made the statement that production will fall is because it's TRUE for every RB. The more carries you get. The more your averages go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: I wouldnt use any RB before 1990 as an example. Also emmitt was about 5'9 210 at his heaviest. And the reason why he made the statement that production will fall is because it's TRUE for every RB. The more carries you get. The more your averages go down. While I don't think it makes much difference pre 1990/post 1990, but that is a whole different debate I don't care to get into in this thread, I would mention that of the 9 RB's I listed 7 of them had seasons in the 90's or later. I'd also mention that Kamara is bigger than 3 of the next 5 RB's on the all time rushing list (Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, and Marcus Allen). It is likely true to an extent that his production will go down a bit with more carries, but we are talking about a RB with prototypical size, that has been putting up absurd production. I don't think anyone is expecting him to keep up at a 6+ ypc rate, but it seems very reasonable to expect him between a 4.5 ypc to 5.5 ypc given the ability he's shown thus far in his NFL career. Are there any examples of young Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber RB's not being able to effectively handle more carries? At this point, Alvin Kamara has touched the ball 292 in 20 games, or about 15 times per game. I just don't know what more people are waiting for, and if there are any reasonable examples of a similarly talented player failing to take over a larger workload when given the opportunity. If there are examples of this that I'm missing I'm curious to see, but I just don't get the logic at this point until I see some examples of this even being a thing. I know that it has been talked about all the time with undersized RB's for years on this forum, but I don't recall anyone citing an examples of this actually being something that has effected a talented player like this. Just going off memory I recall similar comments regarding guys like Jamaal Charles, Lesean McCoy, and Chris Johnson. Edited October 2, 2018 by tyler735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 19 hours ago, GamedayGuru said: possibly but he's not a speed back, he's an all around back, he's 5'11" 220, he breaks tackles and trucks and stiff arms people all the time. Can he carry the load? that question is unanswered. But he didn’t carry the load in a 4 game sample though. He had 3 meh games and one phenomenal one.. That’s a qtr sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 21 minutes ago, El ramster said: But he didn’t carry the load in a 4 game sample though. He had 3 meh games and one phenomenal one.. That’s a qtr sample. Did you watch the games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said: Did you watch the games? No, I can answer that right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 hour ago, sammymvpknight said: Did you watch the games? You’re gonna tell me that his Oline was poor weeks 1-3.. But against the Giants it was all Kamara making people miss. That’s what I’ve read so far. Everything is all Kamara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, El ramster said: You’re gonna tell me that his Oline was poor weeks 1-3.. But against the Giants it was all Kamara making people miss. That’s what I’ve read so far. Everything is all Kamara. You're gonna tell me that Gurley's Oline was poor in 2016.. but last year it was all Gurley making people miss. That's what I've read so far. Everything is all Gurley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, tyler735 said: You're gonna tell me that Gurley's Oline was poor in 2016.. but last year it was all Gurley making people miss. That's what I've read so far. Everything is all Gurley. When did I say that? It’s what I’ve read out of saint fans. Including from Harper on IG whose the biggest saINTs homer ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, El ramster said: When did I say that? It’s what I’ve read out of saint fans. Including from Harper on IG whose the biggest saINTs homer ever It is what just about every Rams fan I've seen has said regarding Gurley the past couple years, so I find it very ironic that you chose this argument as you have seen first hand what a struggling O-Line can do vs. one that is doing well as a unit, in regards to a RB's production. If you need a reminder, Todd Gurley averaged 3.2 yards per carry in 2016, and 4.7 yards per carry in 2017. Gurley didn't just magically forget how to play football in 2016, and remember again in 2017, his OL wasn't doing a good job run blocking. The same can be said of Kamara the first few games of the season. There weren't consistent holes to run through, and we were missing lineman to start the year. Once Kamara got consistent blocking, he put up a big game. Lets not pretend Kamara hasn't ran well in the past when he has consistent blocking. So to answer this, "You’re gonna tell me that his Oline was poor weeks 1-3", yes it certainly played a large factor. If you disagree, you are welcome to show me the plays in which Kamara made bad reads and missed the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, tyler735 said: It is what just about every Rams fan I've seen has said regarding Gurley the past couple years, so I find it very ironic that you chose this argument as you have seen first hand what a struggling O-Line can do vs. one that is doing well as a unit, in regards to a RB's production. If you need a reminder, Todd Gurley averaged 3.2 yards per carry in 2016, and 4.7 yards per carry in 2017. Gurley didn't just magically forget how to play football in 2016, and remember again in 2017, his OL wasn't doing a good job run blocking. The same can be said of Kamara the first few games of the season. There weren't consistent holes to run through, and we were missing lineman to start the year. Once Kamara got consistent blocking, he put up a big game. Lets not pretend Kamara hasn't ran well in the past when he has consistent blocking. So to answer this, "You’re gonna tell me that his Oline was poor weeks 1-3", yes it certainly played a large factor. If you disagree, you are welcome to show me the plays in which Kamara made bad reads and missed the holes. You keep making this a Todd Gurley thing.. why I have no idea. so if I was a Browns fan I could make my comment with zero issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts