MookieMonstah Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Touches = / = carries. I never said touches, I’ve always said carries. Lesean McCoy was carrying the ball 250-325 times per season. Charles, when healthy, was in the ~250 range. Johnson was a 250-350 carry guy. Kamara has less than 200 in 22 games. Even if you think Kamara’s ability is similar to that of Gurley’s or Bell’s, they have proven to carry heavy loads for multiple seasons. Kamara hasn’t yet. Does it mean he can’t? No. Does it mean he won’t? No. It means he hasn’t done it yet. And if we’re comparing him to guys that have, it’s a strike against him. To be fair, Kamara also spent about 4-5 games as the #3 HB last season. Pretty unfair to hold his volume against him when he started his career behind AP and Ingram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 This is definitely an interesting discussion though. Heres the thing, if Kamara was a little bit thicker and was drafted in the 1st round instead of the 3rd everyone would be gushing about him but he has the perception as a "scat back" who's relying on the Saints system to produce. Just watch the guy play. He's a no brainer top 5 HB to me, the way he avoids contact and makes guys miss with very little effort is something I don't see out of ANY other HB in the league. I don't think he's the best HB in the league but his play is literally effortless, its one of the weirdest things I've seen. Even on his long TD run this past week, it looked like he was literally going at 75%. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navysaintsfan Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: the way he avoids contact and makes guys miss with very little effort is something I don't see out of ANY other HB in the league. How about the way he takes on contact at times as still slips right through their arms or pushes one or two defenders to get to the first down marker? Or the way he fights and stretches for that extra yardage (like his one TD against the Giants where he just barely keeps his leg off the ground and stretches out for the TD). His strength is severely underrated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, navysaintsfan said: How about the way he takes on contact at times as still slips right through their arms or pushes one or two defenders to get to the first down marker? Or the way he fights and stretches for that extra yardage (like his one TD against the Giants where he just barely keeps his leg off the ground and stretches out for the TD). His strength is severely underrated. Nah man, he's just a scat back. Cant run between the tackles. Basically a slot WR if you ask me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 10 hours ago, ET80 said: Just for laughs: Slaton: 268 Davis-Williams: 238 Cadillac: 290 (ok, not a good comp) Brown: 207 (think we got one here) Jones: 197 (got another here) Gary: 276 Anderson: 297 (not a good comp) Droughns: 275 Maroney: 175 (got one) Barber III: 138 (or, 18 more carries than Kamara last season). Foster: 113 Lacy: 284 So - let's focus on the career trajectories of Ronnie Brown, Julius Jones, Marion Barber III and Laurence Maroney. I do applaud you for attempting to find players that fit the type of mold I was inquiring about. I would say the ones you listed at the bottom (Brown, Jones, Barber III, and Maroney) are the closest to what I was looking for, but I don't know that any of them were on the same level as Kamara early in their career's: Ronnie Brown- He did flash some talent early on in his career, but struggled with injuries for most of his career. Sure this could happen to Kamara as well, but as of now Kamara hasn't shown to be injury prone. Ronnie Brown was getting knicked up from the moment he entered the NFL. I'd also add that Ronnie Brown to start his career had YPC's of 4.4 in 2005, and 4.2 in 2006. During his first 2 seasons he accounted for 10 total touchdowns. Kamara has averaged 5.7 YPC for his career average and already has 20 touchdowns in his first 20 games. With Ronnie Brown it was always more of a tease of his talent/hype from being a top 5 pick, but he never (especially early in his career) had the type of production/talent that Kamara has already displayed so far in his career. Julius Jones- He also flashed talent at times in his career, but it was still nowhere near what Kamara has shown thus far. For example, if we take Julius Jones's first 5 seasons he accounted for 20 total touchdowns. As I mentioned before Kamara has accounted for 20 touchdowns in just 20 games. Kamara has also averaged 5.7 YPC to start his career. Julius Jones had a career high of 4.4 YPC in his 5 NFL season. It is another case of people were hoping Julius Jones could put up big numbers, but never put up the type Kamara has to start his career. In Jones's best seasons (2nd and 3rd NFL seasons) he had around 1,200 yards of offense and 5 touchdowns in his 2nd season and 4 touchdowns in his 3rd season. In Kamara's first NFL season he had 1,554 yards of offense and 14 touchdowns. So far in Kamara's 2nd season he has 611 yards of offense and 6 touchdowns (In just 4 games), which has already surpassed Jones's touchdown totals from his best seasons, and is well on the way to surpass Jones's best offensive outputs. In other words, Jones simply never was of the same talent level that Kamara has shown in the NFL. Marion Barber III- Much of the same can be said regarding talent level with Barber compared to Kamara. I would note that Barber had a nice 4 to 5 year run where I think he puts up much better numbers if he isn't in a committee with Julius Jones, and Felix Jones, so I don't know that he is a good argument to say he just dropped off as 4-5 years for a RB isn't so bad. However Kamara has still put up better offensive yards totals in comparison to Barber's best seasons. Kamara also has a higher career YPC than Barber did in any of his best seasons. Laurence Maroney- Never broke 1,000 yards of offense in a season. Never posted above a 4.5 YPC in a season. Had 22 touchdowns in his 5 year career. Kamara broke 1,500 yards of offense as a rookie, has a 5.7 career YPC, has 20 touchdowns in just 20 games. These guys were on way different levels as players. These guys listed undoubtedly flashed talent at times throughout their NFL career's, but none of them appeared to have the output totals that Kamara has had early on in his career, or near the same level of efficiency with their touches. I suppose I will have to just agree to disagree on this one. Sure Kamara could have a catastrophic injury (obviously so could any other RB), but at this rate, I see no reason to believe that with more carries his production will drop off from his top 5 RB level of play. I just think he is unfairly categorized with these types of things because of his draft status, and this strange perception that he is undersized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Kamara reminds me of Bryant Westbrook. same exact player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, El ramster said: Kamara reminds me of Bryant Westbrook. same exact player. Former Detroit Lions CB Bryant Westbrook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, El ramster said: Kamara reminds me of Bryant Westbrook. (Assuming you meant Brian Westbrook) same exact player. There are certainly some similarities there. Brian Westbrook was an absolute beast in his prime. I've always thought Kamara resembled Marshall Faulk pretty well in terms of playing style, obviously he has a long ways to go to reach the success Faulk had in his career, but in terms of explosiveness rushing/receiving, being able to make defenders miss with ease, versatility to line up all over as a WR, and being very similarly sized, I see some similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 6 hours ago, MookieMonstah said: To be fair, Kamara also spent about 4-5 games as the #3 HB last season. Pretty unfair to hold his volume against him when he started his career behind AP and Ingram. It’s not unfair, though. If an UDFA sits behind a HOFer for 2 seasons, then plays with incredible efficiency for a half a season’s worth of carries, I’d be saying the same thing: let’s see them do it with the same workload of the other greats. I’m not holding it against him in the sense that he couldn’t do it or won’t do it. I’m holding it against him in the sense that if we’re talking about the best running back, other guys have a pretty big check on their resume that Kamara hasn’t checked off yet - whether or not it’s his fault or because of anything in his control. I think he can be a 220+ carry guy without it being an issue. In Charles’ range, maybe more. I just want to see it before checking off that box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamedayGuru Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 12 hours ago, El ramster said: Why was he so great his rookie year? Second year idiot fisher decided to hire scot boras who had no credentials to be a OC. Again, wth are saint fans always bringing up Gurley? Is this how the whole Tom Brady vs Manning vs Rodgers thing is lol? If there’s a running back that could beast in any system it’s Sjax. Seriously, go look at the lines he was running behind. Guys who were out of the league in 2-3 years were blocking for that man. Lol. Best RB since Ap that I’ve seen the last 15-17 years... What he did with zero talent on those really bad Rams teams is till this day insane.. It’s why the whole line thing really is a meh point.. But A really proven fact also. Just certain special HBs could over come.. What he did as a runner and catcher was special... Dude pump ur freaking brakes, my question had nothing to do with Kamara be Gurley, I was generally interested what happened, and I don’t need u to tell me about Steven Jackson, he is my favorite of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Might be just because of today's era. Should at least be in the discussion. He's already leading the league with 600 plus yards from scrimmage. Having a guy like that on your offense just opens up everything so much more. I was hoping McKinnon could be something along the lines of Kamara this year, but unfortunately he got hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 On 10/2/2018 at 9:47 PM, GSUeagles14 said: there was another guy from denver that lit it up for a year or two, think he went to UT but his name is escaping me. You're probably thinking of Quentin Griffith from OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: You're probably thinking of Quentin Griffith from OK It was Selvin Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Cadillac Williams had a monster rookie season before flaming out, mainly because injury. I think that it’s safe to say that it is exceptionally rare for a RB to be as great as Kamara early in his career and not be great for a longer period of time barring injury. Somrthing that I think that gets overlooked is that Kamara is essentially the Antonio Brown of the RB position...his consistency game to game is unparalleled. He is the probably one of top three “match-up” proof players in the NFL at any position on the offensive side of the ball. In order to shut him down your defense can’t have a weakness...otherwise Kamara exploits it. As good as Gurley is...elite run defenses can contain him. I’m pretty sure that if you did a standard deviation of his statistical output, Kamara will probably have one of the most narrow standard deviations on all time...and I’d be shocked if he isn’t currently atop the RB position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: It was Selvin Young. it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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