Who Has The Better Offense? Rams or Chiefs

[Jakuvious]

3 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

@Jakuvious So the Chiefs paid Watkins all that money not to be the true number one receiver? Nobody said he was better than Hill. Watkins has the size and speed. He is a redzone threat. Like even last season as great as Hill was people kept saying “if only the Chiefs had a true number one receiver to play opposite of Hill”. Well the Chiefs have that guy in Watkins. 

Also you saying the guy wasn’t wide open in the back of the endzone? I’ve seen the play a lot and he was as wide open as you are going to get in the NFL. Great play though so I’m not taking anything away from it. I’m not going to act like Mahomes had to fit it into a tight window where defenders was covering the receiver tightly. 

Yup. The Rams paying Suh a ton of money this year doesn't mean he's better or more pivotal to the DL than Donald, right? Luckily, multiple guys from the same position group can see the field at the same time. So Watkins can get fewer touches than Hill, he can get fewer yards than Hill, he can be a lesser WR than Hill, but still see starter snaps. And no one who knew what they were talking about said that. Hill established himself as a very good WR and a legitimate #1 WR last year.

He was open, but there were two DBs converging underneath, making the throwing lane pretty narrow. Next gen stats did a really good visualization at it. The gap between Sherman and Axum at the time of throw was 6.3 yards. By the time the ball arrived it was much smaller. And if there wasn't as much velocity on the throw as there was, or if it was a little lower, it would've easily been knocked away.

[Chiefer]

1 hour ago, Chiefer said:

Let's look at the play in question:

People say he's got a great OL(Stephen A), but here the OLis blown off the snap right away. So he scrambles away, then Marsh and most of his WRs are on the other side so he spins away again.

conley starts getting open following his movements, but how can you not say it was a tight window? Defenders are converging and Richard Sherman is right there. A lesser QB with worse arm talent and that's an Interception. Not many can rifle it between a clog of defenders like that on the run, Alex Smtih wouldve taken a sack by now.

Next gen stats clocked that throw at 61.25 mph, that fastest throw ever at the combine was 62. And this was imperfect conditions on the run, sidearm, perfect throw. Defense has no chance so it looks like an 'easy throw'(if scrambling 40 yards and making pinpoint accurate throws on the run was easy). But mahomes just makes it look easy.

Can't comment on Goff, but I'm sure it was a great throw i liked him coming out. But how is Mahomes throw not a "big time throw that elite QBs have to make"? How is that not a test?

 

[kingseanjohn]

9 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

@Jakuvious So the Chiefs paid Watkins all that money not to be the true number one receiver? Nobody said he was better than Hill. Watkins has the size and speed. He is a redzone threat. Like even last season as great as Hill was people kept saying “if only the Chiefs had a true number one receiver to play opposite of Hill”. Well the Chiefs have that guy in Watkins. 

Also you saying the guy wasn’t wide open in the back of the endzone? I’ve seen the play a lot and he was as wide open as you are going to get in the NFL. Great play though so I’m not taking anything away from it. I’m not going to act like Mahomes had to fit it into a tight window where defenders was covering the receiver tightly. 

With Hill, Mahomes, Hunt, Conley, Robinson, etc still on rookie contracts you can pay for a high end #2.

[MrOaktown_56]

Rams easily right now because they have the resume. They were the #1 offense last year and have continued their insane success.

The Chiefs THIS YEAR have been better. But it's only been 3 games. If they continue this then sure, but it's very early and give me the team that has been doing it and continues to do it.

[MrOaktown_56]

6 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Yup. The Rams paying Suh a ton of money this year doesn't mean he's better or more pivotal to the DL than Donald, right? Luckily, multiple guys from the same position group can see the field at the same time. So Watkins can get fewer touches than Hill, he can get fewer yards than Hill, he can be a lesser WR than Hill, but still see starter snaps. And no one who knew what they were talking about said that. Hill established himself as a very good WR and a legitimate #1 WR last year.

He was open, but there were two DBs converging underneath, making the throwing lane pretty narrow. Next gen stats did a really good visualization at it. The gap between Sherman and Axum at the time of throw was 6.3 yards. By the time the ball arrived it was much smaller. And if there wasn't as much velocity on the throw as there was, or if it was a little lower, it would've easily been knocked away.

3

Yes but no. I get the logic, but Suh may be a 1st ballot HOF and is probably underpaid relative to his position and his career, whereas Watkins is the opposite.

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Yes but no. I get the logic, but Suh may be a 1st ballot HOF and is probably underpaid relative to his position and his career, whereas Watkins is the opposite.

That's really not relevant to the point at all, though. His argument was that we're paying Watkins a lot, therefore he's the #1 WR. Which just isn't sound logic. Whether or not Watkins is over or underpaid is irrelevant in regards to my post. Money paid =/= depth chart position and value.

[Broncofan]

Let's not forget the context of a season's worth of dominance, vs. 3 games.

There's no doubt in my mind that Mahomes is legit.  He's not going to keep this pace (duh), but you don't keep this pace right out of your first 4 games (DEN first start Week 17) and not be legit.

But, let's also realize they faced a LAC D without Bosa and Liuget, and CB Verrett out for the year.   Then SF without Foster, and at home.  And then PIT's woeful D.   LAR faced the same LAC D, and SF too, so it's not wrong to say KC is better for Weeks 1-3.  Not at all.   But it's also a stretch to say KC's the better O overall.   We've seen what LAR can do against a year's worth of teams, including very good D's.   We haven't seen that yet with Mahomes & co.

It's pretty easy to say that we're dealing with 2 elite O's.   But the better of the 2 overall, and at end of year?  I'll give the nod to LAR for now, because I am confident in their ability to maintain/adapt over 16 games and longer.  Not so much with Andy Reid.

[Jakuvious]

12 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Let's not forget the context of a season's worth of dominance, vs. 3 games.

There's no doubt in my mind that Mahomes is legit.  He's not going to keep this pace (duh), but you don't keep this pace right out of your first 4 games (DEN first start Week 17) and not be legit.

But, let's also realize they faced a LAC D without Bosa and Liuget, and CB Verrett out for the year.   Then SF without Foster, and at home.  And then PIT's woeful D.   LAR faced the same LAC D, and SF too, so it's not wrong to say KC is better for Weeks 1-3.  Not at all.   But it's also a stretch to say KC's the better O overall.   We've seen what LAR can do against a year's worth of teams, including very good D's.   We haven't seen that yet with Mahomes & co.

It's pretty easy to say that we're dealing with 2 elite O's.   But the better of the 2 overall, and at end of year?  I'll give the nod to LAR for now, because I am confident in their ability to maintain/adapt over 16 games and longer.  Not so much with Andy Reid.

This is a detail, but for the sake of accuracy, San Fran had Foster against us. For everything except the last drive, anyway. He was suspended weeks 1 and 2, but was active against us week 3. Didn't get injured until the 4th quarter.

[Broncofan]

28 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

This is a detail, but for the sake of accuracy, San Fran had Foster against us. For everything except the last drive, anyway. He was suspended weeks 1 and 2, but was active against us week 3. Didn't get injured until the 4th quarter.

Ah right, gotcha.   As I said you can’t take away saying KC better so far.   Just a long way to say who will be better this year.  

FWIW I expect DEN won’t do much to stop the KC train from chugging along.  JAX, CIN, CLE, LAR & LAC with Bosa/Liuget back should provide a great barometer how special that O is - esp if it can overcome Reid’s overthinking and game management weaknesses in close games then I’ll give them the nod.  Just hard to go against the leaders from last year.  

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

That's really not relevant to the point at all, though. His argument was that we're paying Watkins a lot, therefore he's the #1 WR. Which just isn't sound logic. Whether or not Watkins is over or underpaid is irrelevant in regards to my post. Money paid =/= depth chart position and value.

Fair enough.

[Broncofan]

Well that was an impressive display.   KC will get to show off their toys vs. our hapless pass coverage D on MNF.

[daineraider]

Yes

[Malfatron]

we will find out in the super bowl

 

(but its the rams)

[kingseanjohn]

37 minutes ago, Malfatron said:

we will find out in the super bowl

 

(but its the rams)

You forgot about the week 11 preview

[BAConrad]

Rams.

/thread