Norm Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, cannondale said: Well if we are talking overall consensus with regard to Rodgers, I've pretty much been leery to bash him to the extent that others have. He has gotten older, and most likely some skills have diminished. No different than any other QB. I mean he did just throw for 4,000 yards with 26 TD's and 4 INT's. Can you win a Super Bowl with him ? Yes. That's the end of the story for me. It's Aaron Rodgers. We should be wanting more than "well he won't prevent us from winning a super bowl" and if we can't, that's fine too. But then people need to accept then he's not the almighty anymore and is allowed to be criticized. You can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, Norm said: It's Aaron Rodgers. We should be wanting more than "well he won't prevent us from winning a super bowl" and if we can't, that's fine too. But then people need to accept then he's not the almighty anymore and is allowed to be criticized. You can't have it both ways. Based on what ? The player he was 4 injuries and 10 years ago ? I guess that's the divide in opinions. For the most part I'll stay out of it because there's enough gray area to argue either side but never be able to win the debate. But screaming about a 4th down sack or time outs is just too much for me to not respond to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, cannondale said: Based on what ? The player he was 4 injuries and 10 years ago ? I guess that's the divide in opinions. For the most part I'll stay out of it because there's enough gray area to argue either side but never be able to win the debate. But screaming about a 4th down sack or time outs is just too much for me to not respond to. His check 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: His check That's wrong on so many levels and you know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Norm said: It's Aaron Rodgers. We should be wanting more than "well he won't prevent us from winning a super bowl" and if we can't, that's fine too. But then people need to accept then he's not the almighty anymore and is allowed to be criticized. You can't have it both ways. I mean, fans are never going to be rational. You're right of course, but we both know that there's no stopping this train at this point. It was the same thing with Favre; hero worship is a hell of a thing. That being said, I do think Rodgers is starting to actually get the short shrift here. Like, these are all legitimate, defensible criticisms of Rodgers, but it's also easy to overstate it because it's a relative issue. His play is not a problem in a vacuum, devoid of all context; you can absolutely win a Super Bowl with a QB who throws 26 TDs/4 INTs and has a 95.4 passer rating. That's a solidly above average QB. Rodgers is only the problem because his contract hamstrings the team's finances, and he's not playing at a level that mitigates that. He has trouble throwing over the middle, he has eyes for only Davante, and he plays hero ball too much, but I mean those relative to who he could be and if Favre showed anything late in his career it's that you never do know when someone will finally take coaching. MLF is only 4 years older than Rodgers and inexperienced, but McCarthy was only 6 years older than Favre and similarly inexperienced when he came onboard back in '06. If MLF could be Rodgers' McCarthy, I mean the skies the limit. But he does need to throw the ball on 4th down, leave the bad comedy plays to Count Orlovsky. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) Do I hate Rashan Gary ? No. Do I hate the Rashan Gary pick. Yes. It wasn't his fault he was picked at #12. Hating Rodgers because the going rate for QB's is 30 million is your choice. Why not hate Gute and or Mark Murphy or whoever instead ? Edited May 8, 2020 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, cannondale said: That's wrong on so many levels and you know that It really isn't. That contract is a millstone around the team's neck, one that's only bearable if Rodgers's play is enough to mitigate the massive loss in value. QB contracts aren't just expensive, they're way more expensive than any other position. Rodgers contract could buy two top flight FA defenders, or one elite one, one decent one and a 1st round QB. Is the team better off with Rodgers or those assets, on a play to play level? Rodgers needs to play at a high enough level to make this equation balanced, because other teams in the league that aren't spending that money on a QB have those assets instead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, MrBobGray said: It really isn't. That contract is a millstone around the team's neck, one that's only bearable if Rodgers's play is enough to mitigate the massive loss in value. QB contracts aren't just expensive, they're way more expensive than any other position. Rodgers contract could buy two top flight FA defenders, or one elite one, one decent one and a 1st round QB. Is the team better off with Rodgers or those assets, on a play to play level? Rodgers needs to play at a high enough level to make this equation balanced, because other teams in the league that aren't spending that money on a QB have those assets instead. None of those things are wrong. But none of those things are Rodgers fault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: It really isn't. That contract is a millstone around the team's neck, one that's only bearable if Rodgers's play is enough to mitigate the massive loss in value. QB contracts aren't just expensive, they're way more expensive than any other position. Rodgers contract could buy two top flight FA defenders, or one elite one, one decent one and a 1st round QB. Is the team better off with Rodgers or those assets, on a play to play level? Rodgers needs to play at a high enough level to make this equation balanced, because other teams in the league that aren't spending that money on a QB have those assets instead. This is why I get upset with some people on here. Complaining about not having playmakers or so and so. Lol at anyone who thinks the Chiefs will be able to afford Hill, Kelce and Mahomes and be able to field a competent defense. It literally happened to us before from 2011-2016 and now it’s happening all over again except Rodgers isn’t covering those blemishes as well as he used to be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, cannondale said: Well if we are talking overall consensus with regard to Rodgers, I've pretty much been leery to bash him to the extent that others have. He has gotten older, and most likely some skills have diminished. No different than any other QB. I mean he did just throw for 4,000 yards with 26 TD's and 4 INT's. Can you win a Super Bowl with him ? Yes. That's the end of the story for me. It's up to MLF and Gute to coach and build accordingly Eh. You need a rockstar defense to win the big game with this Rodgers. His risk aversion gets exposed in the spot light. This is not the same dude that tore the Steelers hearts out with that skinny post to Jennings in the Super Bowl. No way he throws that ball now. And I say that while still being a Rodgers fan because he still shows enough "Godgers" to let me know it is still in there. He just needs to trust it more. In all honestly, in the bigger games that we've been dang near blown out in, he gets a lot of padded stats when the game is all but done against a team that is just playing out the clock. Makes his stuff look better than it really is. I think AG#20 kind of highlighted this once by posting his stats through 3 quarters, where it counted in those game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, vegas492 said: Eh. You need a rockstar defense to win the big game with this Rodgers. His risk aversion gets exposed in the spot light. This is not the same dude that tore the Steelers hearts out with that skinny post to Jennings in the Super Bowl. No way he throws that ball now. And I say that while still being a Rodgers fan because he still shows enough "Godgers" to let me know it is still in there. He just needs to trust it more. In all honestly, in the bigger games that we've been dang near blown out in, he gets a lot of padded stats when the game is all but done against a team that is just playing out the clock. Makes his stuff look better than it really is. I think AG#20 kind of highlighted this once by posting his stats through 3 quarters, where it counted in those game. I just want to know where his stat padding came in the first Niners game if he only had 104 yards passing in the whole game. On 30 attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just now, cannondale said: None of those things are wrong. But none of those things are Rodgers fault Oh totally. But just to be clear, I don't think most posters here hate Rodgers or think he's a bad person. That's mostly just @Outpost31, he said with mostly love. I won't speak for anyone, but personally I still love Rodgers. He will always be one of my favorite players, and I will cheer for him on game day until the day he retires. I also have a lot of issues with his play, because he is capable of playing so much better and the team needs him to. You can criticize what you care about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) And here's where we enter the trench warfare of debate. Exhausting, painful, and doesn't really go anywhere. Rodgers didn't break the bank. He got the going rate. Blame the NFL, GM's or whatever, but he didn't hold anyone hostage. That's my only real point. Anything further regarding "worth" or blame is the gray area for me Edited May 8, 2020 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I just want to know where his stat padding came in the first Niners game if he only had 104 yards passing in the whole game. On 30 attempts. Can you even hit those numbers in Madden with him? Like I feel the program would legitimately not allow you to throw that many incompletions even into coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, cannondale said: And here's where we enter the trench warfare of debate. Exhausting, painful, and doesn't really go anywhere. Rodgers didn't break the bank. He got the going rate. Blame the NFL, GM's or whatever, but he didn't hold anyone hostage. That's my only real point This is true. Do you look at other QB contracts as being poor relative to the play/performance delivered? Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Wilson, Roethlisberger, Newton, Cousins....to name a few. Edited May 8, 2020 by squire12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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